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[Erkki]

Still early in the campaign, its 2066 (started 2050 trans-newton with 9000 auto-RPs, Confederacy). Colonized Mars and still trying to utilize Earth's entire population in manufacturing and research. No Alien contacts yet. I'd like to know if I'm getting stuff even remotely right(notice the low tech). I'm not going to build these but instead just experimenting with the ship designer and SM-instant-researched components.

I'm planning for my first fleet to have a couple of 10,000 ton DD/CL leaders with sensors accompanied by 6-7,000 ton equally fast frigates with just guns and perhaps some backup sensors. I'm going for laser-only weaponry for now with 10cm ones for anti-missile work. Turret traverse tech is still only 3000km/s so not going to use them yet.

Unit masses are limited by shipyards mostly: I'm shooting for a 3-slip 10,000 ton yard and 2 3-slip 6-7000 ton ones which I will have ready within 2 years. The planned fleet is supposed to be purely for interception/home defense role within Sol and possibly nearby systems(I'm planning to colonize a couple of systems that are dead ends jump point wise). Offensive endurance is not yet wanted. The planned fleet will be supported 2 already in-service 9,000 ton not quite as fast sensor cruisers with massive passive sensor suites.

Before I start building these I will at least get to upgrade laser wavelength a one step as well as main weapon caliber to 15cm. Plus whatever you guys suggest. Over 40% of the mass is in engines.

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DDL XP1 class Destroyer Leader    9 550 tons     265 Crew     1728 BP      TCS 191  TH 432  EM 0
4523 km/s     Armour 5-40     Shields 0-0     Sensors 140/80/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 20
Maint Life 1.21 Years     MSP 452    AFR 182%    IFR 2.5%    1YR 317    5YR 4758    Max Repair 291.6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   

432 EP Ion Drive (2)    Power 432    Fuel Use 27.66%    Signature 216    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 300 000 Litres    Range 20.4 billion km   (52 days at full power)

12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (2)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4523 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
10cm C3 Visible Light Laser (4)    Range 60 000km     TS: 4523 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01.2 64-5000 (1)    Max Range: 128 000 km   TS: 5000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 22.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR159-R90 (1)     GPS 18900     Range 159.4m km    Resolution 90
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH10-140 (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km
Harren Warning & Control EM Detection Sensor EM10-80 (1)     Sensitivity 80     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  80m km

ECCM-1 (1)         ECM 10

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Edit: and here the DD/Frigate that I could get with 6,000 tons. Dropped passive sensors, ECM, armor from 5 to 3 and switched engine, fuel and other stuff to match speed, endurance and maintenance life.

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DD XP1 class Destroyer    5 900 tons     177 Crew     1105.7 BP      TCS 118  TH 270  EM 0
4576 km/s     Armour 3-29     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 20
Maint Life 1.24 Years     MSP 234    AFR 139%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 159    5YR 2386    Max Repair 210 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   

270 EP Ion Drive (2)    Power 270    Fuel Use 34.58%    Signature 135    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 22.1 billion km   (55 days at full power)

10cm C3 Visible Light Laser (4)    Range 60 000km     TS: 4576 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (2)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4576 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S01.2 64-5000 (1)    Max Range: 128 000 km   TS: 5000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 22.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR159-R90 (1)     GPS 18900     Range 159.4m km    Resolution 90

ECCM-1 (1)         This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[miauw62]

yeah, in DF you can get a good fort going with a reasonable amount of effort once you get past the UI.

in aurora, you have 50000 systems, each of which you have to design yourself, and each system is represented by a piece of text filled with acronyms and numbers that you dont know what mean, and you dont know how they interact, and that's before you've even started putting together a ship.

[Rince Wind]

Turrets are still useful as you can increase their speed by dedicating more space for the mechanics. The limiting factor here is usually the fire control. And you will need the speed against missiles.
I would drop the long range sensor from the smaller ship.
Your armor is very thin, I'd drop some engines use turrets to compensate for the lower tracking speed and add more armour.
ECM on laser ships is pretty useless. It doesn't really matter if they shoot you from 40mil km or 45mil km.
I usually use 3types of sensors,  res 1, res 20 and something that starts at 100 or 150 and then might be tailored to the smaller enemy ships. 20 is for FACs. Not that necessary when you don't want to shoot missiles at them.
You might also use 9kt and 6kt, do you can use 3 and 2 engines of the same type.

[Erkki]

Turrets are still useful as you can increase their speed by dedicating more space for the mechanics. The limiting factor here is usually the fire control. And you will need the speed against missiles.
I would drop the long range sensor from the smaller ship.
Your armor is very thin, I'd drop some engines use turrets to compensate for the lower tracking speed and add more armour.
ECM on laser ships is pretty useless. It doesn't really matter if they shoot you from 40mil km or 45mil km.
I usually use 3types of sensors,  res 1, res 20 and something that starts at 100 or 150 and then might be tailored to the smaller enemy ships. 20 is for FACs. Not that necessary when you don't want to shoot missiles at them.
You might also use 9kt and 6kt, do you can use 3 and 2 engines of the same type.

Alright! Improved the designs. The mass ratio is now 10,100 to 5,050 and they use the same engine and power plant.

I'll get the next reactor type, near-UV laser and 15cm laser caliber before I start building anything.

Spoiler: Improved Designs (click to show/hide)

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DDL XP1 class Destroyer Leader    10 100 tons     239 Crew     1787.8 BP      TCS 202  TH 432  EM 0
4277 km/s     Armour 6-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 140/80/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 28.6
Maint Life 1.13 Years     MSP 443    AFR 204%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 350    5YR 5247    Max Repair 291.6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 0   

432 EP Ion Drive (2)    Power 432    Fuel Use 27.66%    Signature 216    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km   (87 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (2)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4277 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 22.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR159-R90 (1)     GPS 18900     Range 159.4m km    Resolution 90
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (2)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH10-140 (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km
Harren Warning & Control EM Detection Sensor EM10-80 (1)     Sensitivity 80     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  80m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


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FR XP1 class Frigate    5 050 tons     118 Crew     816.8 BP      TCS 101  TH 216  EM 0
4277 km/s     Armour 5-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 24.6
Maint Life 1.13 Years     MSP 202    AFR 102%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 161    5YR 2413    Max Repair 291.6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   

432 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 432    Fuel Use 27.66%    Signature 216    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km   (87 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (1)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4277 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 out18 (1)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

[Flying Dice]

Yep. You can make turrets faster than the listed tracking speed, you just have to put more volume into gears. Tracking speeds much below 20,000km/s will get you slaughtered.

At your tech level mixing and matching different weapon types just chews up space. Drop the 12cms and their fire controls, turret the 10cms, and tack on armor. Useful anti-ship active sensors are always going to be laughably oversized; just make a dedicated spotting ship or two and stick R1 AM sensors on your combat ships. Don't bother with EM passives, thermals will pick up enemy ships, populations, and missiles just fine, and the extra space will let you armor up more.

Use multiple small reactors instead of one big one, especially with ships this slow and thinly armored. One lucky hit will completely defang one of these. Don't worry too much about your speed, TL1-3 ships never go anywhere fast, and your fuel limits you to a range of ~2-3 systems anyways.
--

Basically at this point in my campaigns I don't even bother building anything more than disposable FACs to keep larger colonies happy. If you run into Precursors at <TL4 there's not really much you can do apart from avoiding them. If you run into Star Swarm it's basically just a matter of praying that they avoid Sol until you get your tech up and crank out a couple long-ranged fast laser cruisers to pick them apart. If you get Invaders at anything below ~TL6/massive fleets of TL4-5 ships spamming thousands of missiles and meson beams you're just straight up fucked. Even a freshly spawned NPR will usually have better tech and more ships than you. My advice above the level of improving the ships would be to focus all of your industry on surveying, mining, bootstrapping your industrial base, colonizing, and researching.

is this game still as ridiculously obtuse as i remember from years ago?

The answer will always be yes, and I hope it never changes.

Thank goodness for that. The market's already saturated with streamlined 4Xes.

[Erkki]

As I said, I dont plan on building anything yet. Definitely not 12 cm lasers any way, I've seen the caliber/power vs. range/tonnage investment graph. I'm just experimenting and mapping what everything I need or may want to think about.

I'll try dropping the EM passives completely from the DDL, use something like rating 4 reactors and up the armor some more. But are they really overly slow for low tech vessels? Should I shoot for say 6000 km/s for laser ships with the current tech of ion engines?

edit:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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DDL XP1 class Destroyer Leader    10 100 tons     218 Crew     1774 BP      TCS 202  TH 432  EM 0
4277 km/s     Armour 8-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 140/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 28.6
Maint Life 1.11 Years     MSP 439    AFR 204%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 361    5YR 5413    Max Repair 291.6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   

432 EP Ion Drive (2)    Power 432    Fuel Use 27.66%    Signature 216    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km   (87 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (2)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4277 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 22.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR159-R90 (1)     GPS 18900     Range 159.4m km    Resolution 90
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH10-140 (1)     Sensitivity 140     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  140m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Code: [Select]

FR XP1 class Frigate    5 050 tons     118 Crew     816.8 BP      TCS 101  TH 216  EM 0
4277 km/s     Armour 5-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 24.6
Maint Life 1.13 Years     MSP 202    AFR 102%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 161    5YR 2413    Max Repair 291.6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 5 months    Spare Berths 1   

432 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 432    Fuel Use 27.66%    Signature 216    Exp 9%
Fuel Capacity 250 000 Litres    Range 32.2 billion km   (87 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Visible Light Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 60 000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 2    ROF 5        3 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
12cm C4 Visible Light Laser (1)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4277 km/s     Power 4-4     RM 2    ROF 5        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S03 128-6000 (1)    Max Range: 256 000 km   TS: 6000 km/s     96 92 88 84 80 77 73 69 65 61
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 out18 (1)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 11     Range 840k km    MCR 92k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[Flying Dice]

No, no--I was saying that you're never going to get good speed out of low-tech drives, so don't worry too much about exactly how fast they are. Those are more or less on par with what I'd expect to see at Ion drives.

[Erkki]

No, no--I was saying that you're never going to get good speed out of low-tech drives, so don't worry too much about exactly how fast they are. Those are more or less on par with what I'd expect to see at Ion drives.

Ahh yeah I see. I may still just build some more sensor, survey and point defense ships with 10 cm lasers with ion engines and wait until I have whatever was the next step in propulsion before I build actual line combat ships. There are no threats to fight yet and I'm concentrating on expanding.

[Lord Shonus]

I can't get this to run on Windows 10, getting that msstdfmt.dll error, but the fix doesn't work anymore.

[MarcAFK]

The simple shutdown timer install fix?
It's possible you need to manually patch the dll into the registry, I'll see if I can remember.
Edit: oh now I remember, the manual fix on the origonal post uses a now broken image XD , so you need to search for and install a program called "simple shutdown timer" that has the dll you want, it should be installed and registered properly.

[Azated]

So do NPR's ever use jump gates/ships? I've never seen them leave their home system, even with gates on both ends. Always wanted to set up a minefield or an ambush but they always make me come to them, and then I get railed to all hell from their ambush instead.

[Flying Dice]

Yep. But most likely you're only encountering randomly spawned ones--that is, NPRs that spawn when you discover a system with a habitable world, rather than ones which are placed at the start of the game. Those are generally going to be pretty low-tech and have few ships unless you've been pumping the difficulty way up.

[RedKing]

Which always feels a bit weird when you encounter a new homeworld late into a game with high difficulty and it spawns a massive empire.

"We are the mighty and ancient Florg Empire! Fear our massive armadas! We are the lords of all we survey!"
"Oh yeah? How come I've never seen or heard of you until now?"
"Well....you know...we've been busy. With stuff."

[Flying Dice]

I just assume that they did the same thing I did and hid in their home system for decades. 

[Lord Shonus]

The simple shutdown timer install fix?
It's possible you need to manually patch the dll into the registry, I'll see if I can remember.
Edit: oh now I remember, the manual fix on the origonal post uses a now broken image XD , so you need to search for and install a program called "simple shutdown timer" that has the dll you want, it should be installed and registered properly.

I tried doing a manual DLL install (which didn't work), but I was able to find an unofficial one-click installer for the latest version of Aurora on the official forums that did.