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Author Topic: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games  (Read 1508415 times)

Rince Wind

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19140 on: October 12, 2017, 06:20:50 pm »

Active sensors are never stealthy. If you want stealth you'll need passives.
I never used stealth, but I think your ship will be detected at about 2/3 of the usual distance.
I would wait for better stealth tech. Then add massive passive sensors and not many engines, so your heat signature is low as well (for passiv thermals).

If you went with the standard 1000 stars it might take a while to find NPRs. Precursors are usually in systems with habitable planets.




I let my survey ships do the scouting. While the gravs might never see any inhabitants the geo surveyers will find them. Unless they are found first.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19141 on: October 12, 2017, 06:31:39 pm »

Oh, good thing I didn't set up the yard for them yet then. I'll just send out more survey craft. And when I do make a stealth ship I'll leave it with just passives, by then probably much better passives too.
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Shooer

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19142 on: October 12, 2017, 07:24:16 pm »

Cloaking devices reduce the cross section of a ship.  Cross section is used by active sensors to detect ships.  So a 10k ship with a 20% reduction is considered 8k. 

If you are going to use cloak and haven't met anyone else yet go with your best friend when designing your ships: design to fight your self.  So if you are fitting cloaks on a ship that will be in direct combat then design them to fight outside the range where they would be detected.

The only time I do stealth ships is siege ships.  Usually 6k sometimes 8k.  Fit with a few box launchers armed with massive long range MIRVs.  Their job is to enter a system with the main combat fleet and immediately move in a circle around the system as main combat fleet heads right into the enemy.  Main fleet draws mobile combat elements and engages while stealth ships move at slow speed to get into position where they won't be detected and can launch their payload at any fortified location.

I design for but never use is a stealth capture ship.  Main ship carries the marines and a super high speed assault shuttle that fireslaunches drops the marines off.  The main use most people use for stealth is ships fitted with massive passive sensors to be used as spy ships.  Active sensors glow like a sun even for small EM sensors so they aren't conducive to stealth.
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RAM

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19143 on: October 12, 2017, 07:34:09 pm »

Missiles can have their own active sensors? So they can be used by a ship that lacks such things? Or at least a spotter fighter could work...

I think that the real question is what class will be named "Pyrrhic"...
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Shooer

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19144 on: October 12, 2017, 07:56:50 pm »

On my siege MIRVs the sub-munitions get thermal sensors.  That allows them to close without being detected for even longer, but not that they would get defensive fire any sooner if they did have actives.
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StagnantSoul

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19145 on: October 12, 2017, 10:44:17 pm »

Welp, decided to restart after I looked at the years: Started year 2000, it was 2104... I spent the first fifty derping around with science and doing everything wrong, this time I'll get right to everything with what I know now. Already have two survey craft thumping out, invested in a civilian line early so they'll actually do something for once, have a Sorium mine orbiting Jupiter making 3.2million litres of fuel per annumm, whatever the hell that means, wondering how to ship it home without spending forever in transit. Could I set up a fast tanker to go back and fourth between Telos (my Earth) and Jupiter without me telling it to every time? Already have a long range surveyor in another system, and working on my jump gate production tech so I can get them pumping out. I miss my awesome 65% bonus missile and kinetic scientist though...
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I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
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RAM

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19146 on: October 13, 2017, 12:06:56 am »

I can't believe that I don't know this, but is it possible to mass-driver fuel?
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coleslaw35

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19147 on: October 13, 2017, 01:02:30 am »

I can't believe that I don't know this, but is it possible to mass-driver fuel?

Nope.

EDIT: Off topic, but is anyone else having issues with profile pictures? I checked and for some reason my profile picture turned into the old YouTube person shape icon and now I am unable to set that beautiful container of 'slaw as my profile picture.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 01:09:59 am by coleslaw35 »
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Alastar

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19148 on: October 13, 2017, 01:52:40 am »

Regarding stealth and active sensors:
Depends on what your aim is. Stealth won't help you avoid detection if you have a powerful, noisy active sensor*.
But it'll still make it harder for enemy active sensors and fire controls to lock on. So if you have a stealthed sensor ship escorted by stealthy missile ships or fighters**, you should get to strike first.


* Because how grav pulse strength scales, you can reduce sensor footprint by building oversized Resolution-1 sensors. At the same EM sensitivity tech, a R100 active of any size will be detected at its maximum range by a size-1 passive EM sensor. A R1 active will be detected at its maximum range by a size-10 passive.

** I consider stealth tech only for packages that can't be split up, like one large sensor. Otherwise, I simply distribute the capability over multiple FACs/fighters. Cloaking tech and possibly reduced-signature engines are too expensive if there are other options.
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Detros

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19149 on: October 13, 2017, 04:28:21 am »

Eh, two questions:

1: Does a stealthy ship have any place in a combat situation? Like can they pew someone without giving away their position?

2: How stealthy is this ship? It's meant to go into other areas and drop off a fighter to watch the area, while it moves on and plops a second down somewhere else and also watches itself. I know it's rather slow but even if caught it's rather replaceable. Will probably be setting up some shipyards on mars for it, might even move all my civilian shipyards to it and focus on military at Earth. I still haven't found an NPR or... Anything, yet. I put it to have 3 NPR's in the beginning, hoping this finds some.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quite hidden when only using passive sensors, it can see itself at less than 4M km.
On the other hand it can be seen with anything with just about any EM sensors (or a tracking station) over half of system the moment it uses that big active one.
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Alastar

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19150 on: October 13, 2017, 05:41:20 am »

While it may work, that ship is a fairly wasteful design. In one package, there is a respectable sensor suite, a hangar for 2 parasites, and a jump drive.

If you don't need this to jump other ships, split it up into multiple craft (probably FACs), and you are stealthier without using any stealth tech. Maybe use the saved space for lower-power engines, for better range and fuel efficiency at the same speed.
Can't tell for sure without details, but you can probably eliminate the parasites and simply run another sensor vessel.

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Flying Dice

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19151 on: October 13, 2017, 09:17:17 am »

The main use of cloaking devices is running long-duration passive scouts. I make stealth cruisers with large passives and 5+ year deployment time to drop into occupied systems to try to get a read on local forces before I send a fleet group in. They're too tonnage-intensive for practical use on warships, it's marginal benefit gained in exchange for what could have been more weapons/armor/drives. Make sure to use them in conjunction with reduced sig drives.

Missiles can have their own active sensors? So they can be used by a ship that lacks such things? Or at least a spotter fighter could work...

I think that the real question is what class will be named "Pyrrhic"...

Not practically. You'd need to set waypoints on passive traces and fire at the WPs, then pray that the contact doesn't move at all. Missile sensors are for redirecting strays and spares onto new targets.
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Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Khan Boyzitbig

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19152 on: October 13, 2017, 09:31:20 am »

So I decided to give this game a shot, not got much idea what I'm doing but still.
How does this look for a small ship?
Code: [Select]
Ark Royal class Destroyer    3 500 tons     73 Crew     434.6 BP      TCS 70  TH 300  EM 0
4285 km/s     Armour 5-20     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 8
Maint Life 2.41 Years     MSP 78    AFR 98%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 18    5YR 276    Max Repair 40 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   

Daly & Blackburn 60 EP Ion Drive (5)    Power 60    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 60    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 500 000 Litres    Range 30.1 billion km   (81 days at full power)

Williamson Orbital Systems 12cm C2 Visible Light Laser (2)    Range 80 000km     TS: 4285 km/s     Power 4-2     RM 2    ROF 10        4 4 2 2 1 1 1 1 0 0
Fire Control S02 64-2000 (1)    Max Range: 128 000 km   TS: 2000 km/s     92 84 77 69 61 53 45 37 30 22
Nixon-Anderson Aerospace Industries Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 13.5    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

And yes I have just noticed my fire control outranges those lasers, Didn't expect that.
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Mini

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19153 on: October 13, 2017, 10:14:02 am »

Laser range vs fire control range is pretty soft. If you have excess in one it's still useful, since lasers have reduced damage over range and beam fire controls have reduced chance to hit over range. It's nothing like missiles where if you don't match the ranges you're wasting space (or future-proofing if you want to be generous). I believe the range listed when you are designing a beam fire control is the 50% accuracy range as well, so there's even a little mental hurdle there to match ranges.
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Khan Boyzitbig

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Re: Aurora - The Dwarf Fortress of 4X Games
« Reply #19154 on: October 13, 2017, 10:28:34 am »

So I have this little problem. I have built a ship but it won't move, it has fuel and engines and orders but it just sits at earth and does nothing while supposedly going at full speed. If it has the order to survey next planet/moon/whatever it still sits there and interrupts everything.
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