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Author Topic: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002  (Read 3213 times)

Aqizzar

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The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« on: January 17, 2010, 06:03:06 am »

All the way back in May I had the idea of making my own table-top wargame system.  I revisited it a few times over the next couple months, but I never got around to, well, doing anything with it.  It was never close to playable, just a rambling collection of ideas.  And as my free time disappeared into university obligations, I let it fall off my todo list.

I've only got a couple weeks of free time before I'm back in the same situation, but I'm not going to let that stop me.  I've got a lengthy list of things I want to be doing, and short of doing any of the things I originally wanted to do with my vacation, I'm returning to the Annihilation Ængine in the hopes of actually calling a project finished for once.  The old thread was getting bloated and meandering, so I'm making a new one, where I can consolidate important information in the first and second posts (without Org's spam in the way).  You may also notice that I dropped "Automatic" from the title.  That is reserved for if/when I bodge together some programs to automate the building and gaming processes, which would be well in the future.

Anyway, without further ado, but much ado to come, I proudly relaunch...

The Annihilation Ængine

This my attempt to make from scratch a table-top styled gaming system, specifically for wargames in the vein of Chainmail, Warhammer, and BrikWars.  As part of its mission statement, the game will have three major goals-

  • The system must be simple enough to be played by hand without computer assistance, but malleable enough to reflect virtually any setting or concept.
  • Players must be able to, with each other's understanding, design their own armies by whatever concept they choose, and be able to play against each other without requiring a referee (although one would always be useful).
  • The system must function in such a way that no models, pieces, actual table, or physical elements of any kind be truly necessary.  If for no other reason than being able to test it, any game should be completely playable via online methods, ideally purpose-made programs but ultimately anything the participants can agree to.


This doesn't begin to describe how the system will actually work.  Everything else in this thread will do that.  In the interests of not having to trip all over the thread to find interesting nuggets like before, I'll be posting links and concise descriptions back here in the first and second posts.  This one will be a general list of stuff that still needs doing and problems encountered, the second will be "finalized" elements and eventually the working rules.  It might make more sense to explain how the game is supposed to work before explaining why it's not working, but I like it better this way.

I am of course always open to suggestions and advice, which is exactly why this thread exists.

What's Stumping Me

Spoiler: Close Combat (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Ranged Combat (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Morale Effects (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Terrain Effects (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Unit Variations (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Complex Models (click to show/hide)


And that my friends is how you spend 1300 words and two weeks saying exactly nothing.  Coming Soon: actual rules, hopefully.
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 06:03:46 am »

What Works So Far

Okay, I'll be expanding this post out more in the future.  Basically, this will be where I collect either rambling descriptions of concepts I'm sticking with, or at least links to them.  Eventually, I'll collate and organize stuff into actual rules.  For now, I'll try to arrange what I hope is a framework for them, once I write them.  Placeholders ahoy.

Some choice posts from the old thread-
The first attempt at describing stat comparisons.
A post you shouldn't read full of errors and discarded theories.
Corrections for the above.
Very important if obsolete post about how elements work, below a post about die sizes, and above...
The gigantic Unit Creation Example.  The most complete look at what I'm shooting for.
Another rambling list of stuff that I haven't done.

Which brings me to the present day, three months later.  That so many of those posts I linked to include variations of, "Okay, I'm seriously totally really doing this now," is not bolstering my confidence, nor is the fact that I started writing this relaunch document on January 2nd.  But it won't quit rolling around in my head, so I might as well try again.  Maybe with people (besides Org) pestering me, I'll actually pay attention for a few weeks this time.

For the moment, I do actually have a good idea about how to handle virtually everything, I just don't know how to write it all down yet.  I'll be doing that piece by piece over time, but I wanted to finally post something, and a progress checklist is a good start.  Presented in a fancy Table of Contents logical progression, here's the list of things to do...

Preliminary Introductions
  • The Responsibilities of the Players and the Referee
  • The Modular Rule System
  • A List of Brief Definitions
  • VASSAL and Other Almost Necessary Proxies
The Most Basic Rules
  • What Is a Unit?
  • Fundamentals: The Army Elements
  • What Is a Model?
  • Fundamentals: Element Types and Natures
  • The Statline
  • Fundamentals: Contest Rolls and Check Rolls
  • What is an Attack?
  • Fundamentals: The Range Table
  • What is a Defense?
  • Fundamentals: Dice and Die Steps
  • What is a Special?
  • Fundamentals: The Perils of Player Logic
  • Finally Making a Unit
  • Putting It All Together: The Catalog
  • The Wide World of Point Values
Playing the Game
  • The Army List vs The Army
  • The Hex Map, Model Placement, and Coherency
  • The Simultaneous Turn
  • What Actions Can Be Taken
  • How Movement Works
  • How Shooting Works
  • How Fighting Works
  • Other Likely Actions
  • Submitting to the Referee
  • Rolling For Initiative
  • The Slough: Making The Turn Happen
  • Post Actions: Morale and Recovery
  • Preparing for the Next Turn
Universal Extra Rules
  • Terrain and How it Works
  • Special or Secret Model Placement
  • Complex Models: Mounts and More
  • Complex Models: Machines and More
  • How Complex Can It Get?
An Example Setting: The Cyclopean System
  • Wouldn't You Like to Know?

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Org

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 10:25:11 am »

Postin for spectating
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Keita

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 10:29:07 am »

Postin for spectating
Aye, this looks interesting
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eerr

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 02:44:38 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nevermind, I was just thinking of small mecha.
Also, I think the game may have serious problems about the order creatures move in, as that was always a given the player could do whatever he wants during his turn. But in this game, if you move simultaneously then you must figure out which unit you want to roll the dice for first.
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 03:13:38 pm »

Also, I think the game may have serious problems about the order creatures move in, as that was always a given the player could do whatever he wants during his turn. But in this game, if you move simultaneously then you must figure out which unit you want to roll the dice for first.

Well, I always considered that the job of the Referee or an impartial program, although players who trust each other can certainly do it themselves.  It shouldn't matter what unit rolls first, because the whole board rolls for progression order at once, and then the results are worked out.  Obviously that would be tedious where lots of Units are concerned, but I'm resigned to it being tedious for now.  That's exactly why I want to make something like a VASSAL module to handle that task itself.

I have a pretty good idea of how close combat can work, at least for now, and that is there's nothing special about it.  One unit tries to catch the other (or both move to engage, as per their standing orders at the start of the turn), and then they cancel any further orders and throw their basic attacks.  Anything special like charging bonuses to hits or strength or weapon fire would be exactly that, Special effects.  Sure it's lazy, but it does it's job.


I was going to type up a vitriolic warning about "postin in thread for interest but i have nothing useful to say" posts, but I don't feel like caring.  As crappy as it is, at least I know somebody's interested.
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eerr

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 03:20:10 pm »

Allow me to explain.  Using Agility to dodge melee attacks is sensible and natural, because that's basically what it means.  But "dodging" bullets or even thrown rocks is nonsensical in itself.  Rationalizing the "dodge" as using acrobatics to duck-and-weave and otherwise be hard to hit doesn't make much more sense, especially if the unit didn't move, implying the models are dancing in place to avoid being shot.

change "agility" to reflexes.

It's not feasible to outrun a bullet, but it is possible to flinch away from where someone is about to shoot.
Or run around like you have your pants on fire with a sniper on your tail.

Reflexes should work especially well for protective cover. Someone shooting you? duck down!

Of course, this could make a whole messa problems.
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Cthulhu

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 03:25:22 pm »

One suggestion you may or may not have already considered:

The war crocodile has the "War Animal Mind" ability.  I'll leave the name aside, since you would probably want to change it anyway, it's a little bland. 

Perhaps things like this could be fused with the Model Nature section.

For example, its model nature could be Mortal, Beast and when looking in the rulebook you would be able to see right there "Oh, here it says Beasts must be kept near non-beasts or they go berserk."  That's quick and concise and doesn't require redundant or slightly modified ruleblocks for all beasts in the game.  Some similar natures could be Mechanical, doesn't function at all without units nearby (And could even be commandeered by enemies if they get to it), Undead, dies if it isn't led by a creature with the Necromancer nature, and the like.
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 03:39:22 pm »

I certainly considered making the "Mind" part of the model information itself, and the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.  That example was meant to be a quick and dirty trial to hammer down what I was thinking.  However, I should the definitions a little more.  "Nature", as I'm using it, refers to what something is made of (basically), which determines how well an attack can damage something.  Using that example, "Mortal" just means human-like, "Beast" would check against the listed strength roll from bullet attacks but reduce the die size of blunt attacks.

Also, I'm chopping down that old example.  For simplicity's sake if nothing else, from now on, all Elements have just one Nature.  Mortal, Blunt, Fire, whatever.  This still works, because the Natures are not part of the core rules themselves, they're just part of the army description.  Obviously this could create problems if two players have two different Nature charts or interpretations there of, but this is obviously a game that requires a bit of mutual understanding to play.  I don't want to have to tie the rules into one specific setting (and the strengths and weaknesses of things is certainly part of a setting), but it is a potentially huge hassle I wouldn't mind avoiding.
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bjlong

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2010, 08:59:42 pm »

I have two suggestions, and a question.

First, wouldn't it make sense for melee ranges to be dependent on the weapon? For example, a sword might have a range of one, *maybe* two hexes, while a phalanx-style spear could span three hexes. On the other hand, dogs might want to bite creatures, and that seems like you'd have to practically be in the same hex to do so!

Second, shooting things: I disagree with dodging thrown rocks--someone with fairly good reaction times can dodge a thrown rock from feet away, even caught unawares. Wouldn't it make more sense to have ranged weapons distinguished between reaction-time and non-reaction-time? Reaction time would give a person enough time to react, which would allow them to use agility or whatever. (Also, maybe change the stat's name from "Initiative" to "Awareness" or something, for less confusion?)

The question: How much are you allowing people to contribute? If we can try to hash out basic things on our own, then submit them to you for approval, I'd certainly love to help.
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Org

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 09:07:04 pm »

almost reminds me of erfworld...
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 09:25:28 pm »

First, wouldn't it make sense for melee ranges to be dependent on the weapon? For example, a sword might have a range of one, *maybe* two hexes, while a phalanx-style spear could span three hexes. On the other hand, dogs might want to bite creatures, and that seems like you'd have to practically be in the same hex to do so!

I've slightly changed how I'm working weapons, and it'll be like what you're talking about.  Ranges are partially the weapon itself, and it's type.  I'll explain later.

Second, shooting things: I disagree with dodging thrown rocks--someone with fairly good reaction times can dodge a thrown rock from feet away, even caught unawares. Wouldn't it make more sense to have ranged weapons distinguished between reaction-time and non-reaction-time? Reaction time would give a person enough time to react, which would allow them to use agility or whatever. (Also, maybe change the stat's name from "Initiative" to "Awareness" or something, for less confusion?)

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here.  That weapons should be easier to dodge based on how they work?  That's basically the meaning of their to-hit die roll.  There's only so many specific details needed.

The question: How much are you allowing people to contribute? If we can try to hash out basic things on our own, then submit them to you for approval, I'd certainly love to help.

You can post anything you want to post.  This thing has been floating around nearly playable in my head since July, but I'm hoping, probably this weekend, I'll finally get down to writing actual rules.  Anything you want to suggest or try writing yourself I'll certainly look at.
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bjlong

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 09:53:34 pm »

Second, shooting things: I disagree with dodging thrown rocks--someone with fairly good reaction times can dodge a thrown rock from feet away, even caught unawares. Wouldn't it make more sense to have ranged weapons distinguished between reaction-time and non-reaction-time? Reaction time would give a person enough time to react, which would allow them to use agility or whatever. (Also, maybe change the stat's name from "Initiative" to "Awareness" or something, for less confusion?)

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting here.  That weapons should be easier to dodge based on how they work?  That's basically the meaning of their to-hit die roll.  There's only so many specific details needed.

Basically, my suggestion is that agility should work into the calculations if it's reasonable for a character to react between the time the projectile leaves someone's hand/gun/borgle and the time it would connect. However, if you want to roll that into a to-hit die roll, I couldn't fault that at all.

Quote from: Aqizzar
The question: How much are you allowing people to contribute? If we can try to hash out basic things on our own, then submit them to you for approval, I'd certainly love to help.

You can post anything you want to post.  This thing has been floating around nearly playable in my head since July, but I'm hoping, probably this weekend, I'll finally get down to writing actual rules.  Anything you want to suggest or try writing yourself I'll certainly look at.

Alright, if you don't get something up this weekend, I'll start trying to flesh out a general scheme for terrain effects.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 10:29:15 pm by bjlong »
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Aqizzar

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2010, 09:59:00 pm »

Alright, if you don't get something up this weekend, I'll start trying to flesh out a general scheme for terrain effects.

Great, I already had an idea on that, but I'm not committed to anything.

Basically, my suggestion is that agility should work into the calculations if it's reasonable for a character to react between the time the projectile leaves someone's hand/gun/borgle and the time it would connect. However, if you want to roll that into a to-hit die roll, I couldn't fault that at all.

Well, if you mean you want Agility (if I keep that name) to factor into dodging ranged attacks, I've considered letting it me "best of Agility or Initiative" instead.
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JoshuaFH

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Re: The Annihilation Ængine - Version 0.002
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2010, 11:13:37 pm »

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