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Author Topic: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback  (Read 45397 times)

CobaltKobold

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2010, 06:40:15 pm »

The thing about the Cyclops is that you know No Man will beat him.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2010, 06:42:09 pm »

I thought that was 'nobody'...
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Footkerchief

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2010, 06:43:09 pm »

I thought that was 'nobody'...

The Odyssey wasn't written in English.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2010, 06:52:46 pm »

True, but 'No Man will beat him' has different connotations then 'nobody will beat him'.

Which might just be Tolkein's fault, but it's the first thing I think of anyway.
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Arkenstone

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #79 on: March 12, 2010, 11:08:32 pm »

In the Odyssey, Odysseus stabs Cyclops in the eye after (or maybe before, can't remember) telling him his name was 'No Man'.  When Cyclops' friends hear him yelling, they ask him what's up; to which he replies "No Man is hurting me! No Man is hurting me!". (Not the brightest of fellows... seen smarter dwarves...) ;)

P.S.  Tolkien actually copied that idea from Shakespeare; but Macbeth also disappointed him when "Birnam Wood comes to Dunisnane" turned out to be just a few guys holding sticks.  He made sure to do it right when 'Fangorn (Lit. Beard-Tree) came to Isengard...'.

This is an Macurist Shake-Spear rendition of a Human. The Human is staring at the skull of Yorick, man of infinite jest.  He knew him.  :'(
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 11:55:32 pm by Arkenstone »
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lordnincompoop

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2010, 06:02:57 pm »

Hey, just wondering: Is there any chance you guys could merge the extra sections with the rest?  :)
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Footkerchief

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2010, 06:05:37 pm »

Hey, just wondering: Is there any chance you guys could merge the extra sections with the rest?  :)

I think they're done editing this episode, but if you want to splice the tracks together, here's a good tool for that.
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Rainseeker

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2010, 01:55:15 am »

This is true.  I'm not touching this episode again.  Sorry.   :-\
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plenum

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #83 on: April 02, 2010, 09:36:02 pm »

Hi!

I criticize DF for the lack of intelligence in dwarfs. I would rather call them ants, because their behavior is not really much more complex then one of ants.
I would recommend adding some AI. Logical programming, goal-based planning, neural networks, etc... - I'm sure game author knows all these strange words (although I still do recommend a nice book about all this: [1]). They might free player from lots of mechanical boring tasks.
I would rather tell "Ok, dwarfs! I want walls here and huge cave channelled there", which would imply followings:
** get the stones somewhere, if you lack them
** butchering and tanning tasks still has more priority
** when channelling don't fall with cave-ins
** when building wall, make sure you don't isolate yourselves (since I still need you for other tasks, like butchering)
** if the path lays through territory where you saw goblins and other beasts, please try to avoid these dangerous territories
** maybe even make temporary stockpile for food and alcohol somewhere near workplaces
** etc
The dwarfs manager (noble?) would propose me plans to solve my given task - I approve it, or reject feeding him back info about what I disliked...
I understand, that computational resource for dwarf behavior is a subject of serious economy; however intelligent decisions are relatively rare comparing to nonintelligent ones - so, this wouldn't make game much slower...

In fact the space for application of AI in this game is pretty big. And I really hope it will be applied. In any case I'm really enjoying the game and respect author's efforts and wish all the best to your Art, Toady!  ;) Well... the creative community of the project is also great!  ;D

[1] Stuart J. Russel, Peter Norvig - "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach", Prentice-Hall inc., 1995.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 09:57:30 pm by plenum »
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Rainseeker

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #84 on: April 02, 2010, 09:58:19 pm »

This really isn't the place for this discussion, however I will forgive you due to your status as "Escaped Lunatic," since everyone basically makes the same mistake at first.  We're discussing the Dwarf Fortress Talk Episode #7, which you can find here: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_talk.html

Dwarf AI isn't very complex right now, but Toady will be improving it.  He can only focus on so many limited areas of the game at once.  Dwarf Fortress is a very complicated game with many facets.  Be patient and you will enjoy the process of the development of Dwarf Fortress with the rest of this wonderful community!

Some of the comments you made may fall into bug category, and you can post bugs here:  http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?board=6.0
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plenum

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Re: Dwarf Fortress Talk #7: Feedback
« Reply #85 on: April 02, 2010, 10:20:33 pm »

Ok, thanks!  ;D
I thought this was a discussion of DF Feedback, 7th hundred of pages. :D
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