Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11

Author Topic: Dwarven Computer  (Read 145378 times)

Flaede

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware the Moon Creatures.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #120 on: April 17, 2010, 04:01:23 am »

Logged
Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]

Forumsdwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2010, 04:05:37 am »

Another sweet Dwarfputer design!

Well done.

Is it Turing-complete?  If it is I think that's a first in the history of Dwarf computing.

Edit: Yes and yes, and you published your instruction set.  What do you think of these mnemonics?

Code: [Select]
000 LD
001 STO
010 ADD
011 SUB
100 JGZ
101 SHL
110 SHR
111 HALT

The only problem left seems to be the clock.  It seems insurmountable, but you and your peers in the Dwarfputing community have done the impossible to get this far ...
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 04:24:12 am by Forumsdwarf »
Logged
"Let them eat XXtroutXX!" -Troas

Scruga

  • Bay Watcher
  • Urist McDwarf cancels eat: Interupted by goat
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2010, 04:22:10 am »

TEH EPIC
Logged
New question! If I were to remove elves [INTELLIGENT] tag in the raws, would it work?
Dwarf Fortress: Where taking a creatures intelligence is an accepted way of modding.

style

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2010, 04:36:18 am »

soon there will be the power to share questionable videos with dwarves on the other end of the world
Logged

nac

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2010, 11:36:05 am »

Razorlength!





« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 12:19:18 pm by nac »
Logged

RedWarrior0

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #125 on: April 21, 2010, 02:37:00 pm »

Spoiler, please?

Jong

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #126 on: April 22, 2010, 10:36:41 am »

And I thought my topic finally died. Instead, I find that it escaped on the Internet.  :o

To think I've been ignoring the forums because I couldn't bear to abandon my fort. At least, not yet.

You know, I don't really think that being the first to build a computer in dwarf fortress is that big a deal. Of course it was a great achievement that demonstrates that you really can do anything in DF, but thats not what sustained my OCD.

What drove me was finally discovering the lowest level of function of computers and proving to myself and everyone else that computers were not magic black boxes. That's why I published my full design plans, released my save and made movies and stuff demonstrating its function. I actually felt like I completed my project once I determined the method and design to build every single component of the computer and drew up complete blueprints. After that, I felt much less obsessive and built the computer when I felt like playing DF.

My biggest takeaway is this: modern computers are simply automatic calculators of awesome power and speed. They are not magic  :P

Hmm.. Let me now reply to some queries earlier in the thread.

OK, so water evaporates, right? And magma doesn't? Also, IIRC, magma doesn't mist up, right? So doesn't that make magma a better choice for computing?

It might. I considered it at the beginning, but I rejected it because magma doesn't drain like water does. Water can drain even though the tile beneath the draining tile is full because the pressure can send the water somewhere else. If I tried that with magma, the magma would probably sit there forever. You could plausibly do it by using pumps, but not in the same manner as I did for my water based system. I'll say it more explicitly: Magma computers are possible.

Another sweet Dwarfputer design!

Well done.

Is it Turing-complete?  If it is I think that's a first in the history of Dwarf computing.

Edit: Yes and yes, and you published your instruction set.  What do you think of these mnemonics?

Code: [Select]
000 LD
001 STO
010 ADD
011 SUB
100 JGZ
101 SHL
110 SHR
111 HALT

The only problem left seems to be the clock.  It seems insurmountable, but you and your peers in the Dwarfputing community have done the impossible to get this far ...

Hmm.. Looks just like the ones in the source document I used to plan the architecture! Why JGZ though? How does that stand for Jump If Not Negative?

As for the clock, its not impossible to make it fully automatic. You could just simply use the repeater design more exactly. I was attempting to make a "repeater" that would only advance a step when I pull a single lever, mostly for my own convenience. The main problem is how long exactly does the computer need to stabilize its state after every operation? How soon is it safe to advance a step? Or to advance to a null step in this case. This is why I decided to just manually operate the thing.

Regarding the operation of the computer, I had this plan to build a I/O room where you could run the computer entirely by pulling levers, advancing steps, loading memory registers and such. No more running around and manually operating pumps! Then it would display the output of the accumulator and maybe even other things using spinning gears, like how some people display the results of their calculators. The whole point of that would be to make the computer usable to adventurers.

Forumsdwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #127 on: April 23, 2010, 12:06:36 am »

Have you considered colored floor hatches for your primary output?
"Hatch off" gives you the floor's color; "Hatch on" gives you the hatch color.  Could even make a segment display out of it.

Also, JGZ, oops.  "Jump if Not Negative" isn't JGZ, it's JNS (Jump if Not Sign) which is pretty cryptic on a CPU without a sign flag, so, umm, JNN?   :-[
Logged
"Let them eat XXtroutXX!" -Troas

Squirrelloid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #128 on: April 23, 2010, 12:55:58 am »

The real problem with the clock is finding a repeater that divides into the day-length or month-length without a remainder, and is slower than whatever counting tally you're using.

I mean, making a counter is really easy.
Logged

Pickled Tink

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #129 on: April 23, 2010, 01:21:47 am »

This is an incredible achievement.

But I am disappointed to say that you failed to ask the next, most dwarvenly question of all:

"How can I use this to kill something?"

Now that the computer is built you should affix it to, and program it to use, a deathtrap.
Logged

Jong

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #130 on: April 23, 2010, 04:48:02 am »

Have you considered colored floor hatches for your primary output?
"Hatch off" gives you the floor's color; "Hatch on" gives you the hatch color.  Could even make a segment display out of it.

Ah that is certainly a more compact idea! Using gears would necessitate a power supply which would be annoying to set up. Plus it would take up an extra floor.

Jyppa

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #131 on: April 23, 2010, 05:21:10 am »


As for the clock, its not impossible to make it fully automatic. You could just simply use the repeater design more exactly. I was attempting to make a "repeater" that would only advance a step when I pull a single lever, mostly for my own convenience. The main problem is how long exactly does the computer need to stabilize its state after every operation? How soon is it safe to advance a step? Or to advance to a null step in this case. This is why I decided to just manually operate the thing.

Regarding the operation of the computer, I had this plan to build a I/O room where you could run the computer entirely by pulling levers, advancing steps, loading memory registers and such. No more running around and manually operating pumps! Then it would display the output of the accumulator and maybe even other things using spinning gears, like how some people display the results of their calculators. The whole point of that would be to make the computer usable to adventurers.

A function that executes once every lever pull (such as incrementing another repeater) looks like this: A->B->C->D->A, where A,B,C,D are pressure plates in a four-step cycle. Once built and connected to power, connect the gear controlling the pump that drains A to B to an external lever and pull it, then connect the pump draining C to D. If you want the same repeater to increment on each lever pull, connect B and D to that function. If you want constant ON signals from the different states, connect A and C. The reset time of this is simply that you can't pull the lever three times within 100 steps, meaning the limiting factor is the reset time of whatever function you're calling. You should be able to find the "safe" interval empirically.

On computer in adventurer mode, I've never gotten any fluid logic with pressure plates to work outside fortress mode, not entirely sure why. Might be impossible.
Logged

Schilcote

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #132 on: April 23, 2010, 12:25:21 pm »

There's a [ADVENTURE_TRAPS=NO] (or something to that effect) tag in the Init.txt. It... well... does what you might expect. It's set to shut down all traps/machines in Adventure mode so you don't get pulverized by your massive field of stone-fall traps when you visit your fortresses. Flipping it the other way might make your computer work.
Logged
WHY DID YOU HAVE ME KICK THEM WTF I DID NOT WANT TO BE SHOT AT.
I dunno, you guys have survived Thomas the tank engine, golems, zombies, nuclear explosions, laser whales, and being on the same team as ragnarock.  I don't think something as tame as a world ending rain of lava will even slow you guys down.

Jong

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #133 on: April 30, 2010, 05:04:45 am »

I finally got around to wikifying my computer design.

Dwarven Computer

Now hopefully people interested in dwarven computing don't have to be experience forum users to find my designs.

Any suggestions?

Flaede

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware the Moon Creatures.
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Computer
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2010, 08:05:22 pm »

There already IS a working autonomous clock design somewhere in this form. (not that I can find it)
I'm not sure what kind of headaches would result from trying to run it on the same map as this beast, however.

Suggestions? Wellll... all this talk of computer-fortresses running traps systems makes me think of Girl Genius' Castle Heterodyne. Anything even remotely approaching that would freak me the heck out! (This may or may not be a good thing)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 08:17:45 pm by Flaede »
Logged
Toady typically doesn't do things by half measures.  As evidenced by turning "make hauling work better" into "implement mine carts with physics".
There are many issues with this statement.
[/quote]
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11