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Author Topic: The funds! The funds are holding us back!  (Read 23541 times)

Grimshot

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #60 on: March 02, 2010, 11:54:06 am »

I think all of you are taking the statement a bit to seriously...
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Grakelin

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2010, 12:50:15 pm »

I think the very idea that donations are going to stay as high all year round as they are during Christmas is poor logic. I also think the idea of Toady starving to death because he's not making enough money is a bit off. He has made over $15,000 in the past five months. It's true that this is less than if he had a full-time job (Which, technically, is what this is. Don't let corporations tell you what a job is). It is also true that the funds come in an uneven pattern. This instability can be easily fixed with planning of finances. Toady doesn't need to spend all $5,000 of the donations he got in November before December 1st.

Also, as far as I am aware, Toady is not feeding a family. Maybe I'm wrong, and he has four children and a wife who are all starving because they live off of just $32516.44 per year.  This is about par on the average American salary.

The argument that Toady is starving, and thusly will be unable to produce DF is silly. I admire Toady greatly for being able to make a living off of what he loves. And I'm sure he's working as hard to produce Dwarf Fortress as he would be to produce something he was on salary pay for.

So this whole debate makes no sense.
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Dabi

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2010, 12:52:50 pm »

I thought it was more of don't think your donation is going to waste.

But seriously why do people think donating applies strings are attached? I find it childish.
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Yarn

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #63 on: March 02, 2010, 01:01:31 pm »

I, personally, never though that anything Threetoe wrote there was at all unusual, I noticed mentions of donating it tons of his monthly reports, I think he was just putting some artistic flare on what Toady said, but maybe he put too much?
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2010, 01:02:38 pm »

When I first saw this thread's title, I initially thought it was another donation drive.
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carebear

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2010, 01:10:49 pm »

Money can't buy extra hours in a day. Lower donations should hardly have any influence on his working speed.
But as mentioned if it means he has to get a job, or even a part time job to survive then it does influence working speed. That said I don't appreciate the 'funds are holding us back' statement either.
Yeah. If it drops below a certain amount for a several months he will have to get a job probably, which would cut back on the time he has available for Dwarf Fortress. But I agree with you. It's not like if the total donation money for a month is 1000 instead of 2000 Toady will work at only half speed. :P
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tigrex

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2010, 01:29:27 pm »

I think everything will be ok.  This is the first lull in funding Bay 12 games has experienced since, um, October, I think.  Naturally, one panics when one's income is slashed, and Threetoe may have let this influence his wording in the March report.

Thinking about it, it is logical that donations might start to decrease until it hits a certain point that constitutes the 'guarenteed' portion of the donations - people who will keep donating no matter what.  Speaking personally, the enthusiasm that surrounded development was at a high in December to January.  Now that we've held our breath for three months and there's still no game, we feel a bit cynical. 

But in any case this is a moot point.  Toady indicated in the last podcast that the release would (hopefully) be no later than April.  The second he releases a stable version, funding will increase.


And $1400 isn't too bad for a man, personally.  This'll be the month to tighten his belt, but I don't get the impression that Toady is in this industry for the Mercedes.
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Baughn

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2010, 01:33:54 pm »

At a guess, one consequence of this will be that the 40d# merge gets delayed.

That's something that can be cut easily even at this late stage, and which would take quite a lot of work, actually. So you get that in late summer instead; I'm sure everyone will be fine, plus my old DF Accelerator hack still works.
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Shades

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2010, 01:37:17 pm »

When I first saw this thread's title, I initially thought it was another donation drive.

Maybe someone should start one, I'd donate despite my annoyance at the announcement.
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DFPongo

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2010, 02:03:48 pm »

I have trouble knowing what the support model for the game is.
URW at least is clear, the game is indy and will stay indy and for x dollars you get a life time license. My money flew to that one. Mount and Blade was clear. My money flew to that one.
This one is less clear. Do they want donations until they can sell the complete game and then we would buy it?  The other issue is that some people have been doing a "pledge money to donate when the next version comes out" thing that is certainly costing toady money right now.
I would say this game is worthy of spending money on right now. I have enjoyed trying to figure the damn thing out. But not sure what my dollars would do, are they the sole support for the team of two?
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3

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2010, 02:19:48 pm »

This one is less clear. Do they want donations until they can sell the complete game and then we would buy it?

No. I can't confirm it (searching did lead me to a couple of promising threads, but I'd have trouble finding one exactly on this subject without a lot of other stuff going on at the same time, and I honestly can't be bothered to read them, as they're long and overwrought, much like this passage), but no. If memory serves it's been stated multiple times that Toady isn't going to charge for DF, and most likely not for any Bay12 game.
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Dabi

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2010, 02:21:13 pm »

I have trouble knowing what the support model for the game is.
URW at least is clear, the game is indy and will stay indy and for x dollars you get a life time license. My money flew to that one. Mount and Blade was clear. My money flew to that one.
This one is less clear. Do they want donations until they can sell the complete game and then we would buy it?  The other issue is that some people have been doing a "pledge money to donate when the next version comes out" thing that is certainly costing toady money right now.
I would say this game is worthy of spending money on right now. I have enjoyed trying to figure the damn thing out. But not sure what my dollars would do, are they the sole support for the team of two?
I don't think you have to worry about a version 1.0 coming out and making you pay.  :)
Plus, it'd be well worth the price tag he puts on it if he did which I doubt he ever will.
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Gantolandon

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2010, 02:25:41 pm »

Too much drama in this topic.

I think that infrequency of the updates it's not a problem here, it's that in the last two months' donations were much bigger than average. Of course, a more frequent update would be very nice.

As for ThreeToe's wording: I believe he tried to ask about more cash very tactfully and it backfired. Anyone who has ever asked for a raise knows that it's sometimes hard to talk about money in this context.
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thvaz

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2010, 02:53:18 pm »

All the donations go to Toady. Threetoe has another job. Or had, but still...

And none of Bay12games will be sold, ever, if I recall. Dwarf Fortress will remain free even after completed.
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MC Dirty

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Re: The funds! The funds are holding us back!
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2010, 03:55:02 pm »

I would say this game is worthy of spending money on right now. I have enjoyed trying to figure the damn thing out. But not sure what my dollars would do, are they the sole support for the team of two?
This game is totally free and will stay free. ToadyOne doesn't have a job other than working on the Bay12Games games and he lives off of donations. ThreeToe (ToadyOne's brother) has a job and, as far as I know, doesn't directly get a part of the donations which is justified, I guess; they are both the designers of this game, but ToadyOne is the programmer, the one working the most on this game by far.
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