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Author Topic: Improved Difficulty  (Read 2656 times)

lemon10

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2010, 06:21:57 pm »

I would prefer some way to change the siege size and frequency in the config (besides just turning them off), so if you want small frequent sieges you could have that or large frequent sieges. it would only effect people who change the settings, so it wouldn't put off new players and better players would be happy.
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Loyal

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2010, 09:53:34 pm »

Honestly, sieges and combat need to be overhauled significantly before they'll provide any half decent player with a challenge. Currently they don't do anything but show up in large numbers and try to bumrush the nearest fort entrance.
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TrombonistAndrew

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2010, 03:14:07 am »

Once stability is achieved with a fort, it is very hard to break unless you try to yourself regardless of sieges. Definitely need more internal threats, more decay, and less invulnerable turtle strategies in general.

One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand.  Because once you have this handled, you can come up with cool ways of breaking things that the player makes, like earthquakes and perhaps some added megabeast/siege equipment behavior where they could create mini-quakes or actively seek out structurally weak areas in addition to maiming dwarves.
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darkflagrance

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2010, 04:21:06 am »

Back on track - I like the idea of making sieges much harder, just not early in the game.

A lot of people are still going to be brand new, or still learning the game.  There's no way they'd be able to handle a siege where 40 goblins show up and start building siege towers and catapults.  They'd be destroyed outright.  And while some people may point to this being Fun, you can't deny that the idea of a "doomsday clock" to the next siege would put off a lot of newbies - even experienced players would get frustrated.

I like how it starts now, with one or two squads showing up at a time.  An early fortress can usually handle this if they're defense-minded at all.  After three or four years, though, when the average player had had adequate time to set up defenses and really hammer out a competent military, you'd see larger and larger invading forces. By year eight or ten it's strange to see less than 40-50 gobbos in a siege - maybe they even start bringing trained monsters to fight for them, and building siege equipment using your map's (or shipped in) resources that you could recover if you beat them.

Ideally the deadline of powerful sieges out for your blood would be balanced against better diplomacy as well. Humans and elves don't go to war with you by choice, and perhaps in the future neither would goblins. There might remain some incentives, such as thieves and the occasional raid for booty and slaves/converts. The beginner would simply play in a conciliatory way until he deemed himself ready to face the relentless hordes.

Besides, invasions can be turned off in the init. One might recommend this to newbies, or provide a newbie version with appropriate init options (and a graphics pack).

Pretty much.

"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."

Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place!  :D

No, no he wasn't.

Both Goblins and Orcs go back a long way.

Actually, according to the article the term "orc" was a general word with connection to foreigners or demons (and here really only because Tolkien liked the sound of it); in its modern sense, "orc" might as well have originally meant the same as goblin.
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Gazz

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2010, 07:06:41 am »

One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand.
But how exactly would that work? What information would be displayed?
Compression, tensile, and shear strength of all used blocks?

Just displaying the information is useless to all but maybe 1 in 1000 players.

Granted, if increasing difficulty is the only goal, that could certainly be achieved that way. =)
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nil

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2010, 01:18:09 pm »

One way to add to this would be to eventually fix the cave-in algorithms such that the game actually checks and provides the player with feedback about unstable construction shapes and material strengths - no more balancing a 50 room castle on top of one wood block, or carving out caves in sand.
But how exactly would that work? What information would be displayed?
Compression, tensile, and shear strength of all used blocks?

Just displaying the information is useless to all but maybe 1 in 1000 players.

Granted, if increasing difficulty is the only goal, that could certainly be achieved that way. =)
Display and mechanics are debatable, but improved cave-ins are almost undoubtably in the pipeline.

Personally, I'd be satisfied with something as simple as the old "no 7-by-7 rooms" rule, but knowing Toady we'll probably see unique material strengths, domes and arches, etc etc.  You'll need a crash course in structural engineering just to build above ground and it will be awesome.

Fedor

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2010, 01:55:15 pm »

Pretty much.

"The orcs in J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit are also referred to as goblins."

Only known synonym I know of.
But he was the one who made 'em up in the first place!  :D

No, no he wasn't.

Both Goblins and Orcs go back a long way.
From that source:  "The modern use of the English word "orc" to denote a race of evil, humanoid creatures begins with J. R. R. Tolkien."

The word "orc" is old.  The specific context, however, is new.  nil is more-or-less correct that Tolkein made them up in the first place (or at least formalized and popularized vaguer and more obscure concepts).
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eerr

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2010, 11:57:53 pm »

Improved difficulty?

All creatures have phasing.
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Rowanas

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2010, 03:20:58 am »

Improved difficulty?

All creatures have phasing.

He's done it again, ladies and gentlemen! with one fell swing of his logic sword, eerr has solved our every problem.
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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2010, 11:42:18 pm »

I would prefer some way to change the siege size and frequency in the config (besides just turning them off), so if you want small frequent sieges you could have that or large frequent sieges. it would only effect people who change the settings, so it wouldn't put off new players and better players would be happy.

I think the location should do what you are saying, a calm location won't have may invasions or sieges, wilderness should be like now and more difficult location should have harder enemies.
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Leotto

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2010, 02:18:50 am »

Difficulty is very important, easy games get boring quick.
  • I'm looking forward to sieges being overhauled, currently they are crap.
  • I hope creature migration will be more vibrant, and less obviously scripted in a future release.
  • I very much am looking forward to job tools being insanely complicated as appose to non-existent.

On the other hand I'd rather not have to micromanage things like foodstocks and animal husbandry, after I have system established.
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kobot

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Re: Improved Difficulty
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2010, 05:59:06 am »

dwarf fortress has a hilarious learning curve
when you first start playing it is almost farcically difficult to do anything at all, but as soon as you get past this and figure out how it works it becomes far too easy and predictable?
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