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[jasonred79]

What I'm saying is that converting high level sleepers depends too much on the RNG. It isn't a consistent system... RNG kicks in for how many days before kidnapping is reported, RNG for successful rolls...
 
This is like an Infinity +1 Sword (look up tvtropes)... that depends on 1 critical lucky roll of the dice.
 
Usually, big rewards in games should be connected to effort or skill or such.
 
And random results should be associated with "large sample population" so that everything evens out in the end.
 
I feel that getting sleepers via interrogation is rather random, all in all. The best way to get a radio personality sleeper consistently is to kidnap 5 of them, and use the same method on all 5... you'll probably get 2-3 of them as sleepers.
 
Being able to only kidnap 1 CEO is rather harsh in terms of luck dependancy, IMHO.

[praguepride]

The issue is that any skill in LCS is fairly easy to grind up to high  obscene levels.


Without so much RNG the first couple of weeks might be tricky, but once you have your 1000 juice, every combat skill in the 20's/every social skill in the 20's/every covert skill in the 20's it's hard to maintain game balance.

[Soadreqm]

I went to the police station to free some prisoners, and one of the (moderate) prisoners I freed noticed my liberal activities (freeing prisoners) and screamed for help. While I was freeing him. From prison. There is something wrong with this scenario.

As I was leaving, I got warning about death squads on site, but the front door was actually unguarded. I think I've ran into response not arriving properly before. I was raiding a CSS safehouse, I think, and the first wave of swat troops didn't show up.

I'm getting the hang of interrogation now, and I managed to recruit a bunch of high level sleepers, including the CEO. I guess it's not harder (than the previous versions) at higher levels, although I liked the old system more, and having some abuse mechanics with no risk of killing the hostage makes it less frustrating at lower levels.

Also, there's something odd with training. It used to be really expensive, but now it's like $40/month. And it doesn't seem to do anything past skill 3 or so. I was trying to get my founder some law skill by brainwashing a judge with ten law and having him teach me.

I had the game freeze after a car chase, and I was able to repeat this once. I still copied the save, but I haven't been able to replicate it any more.

I found a chain(15). It seems to function just like a regular chain, and doesn't use its "ammo", but it's still a bit odd.

I have a pretty good guess how that might have happened, actually, but did you get it off a nonunion worker in nightmare mode?

Probably, yeah. I only noticed it when I was selling loot at the pawn shop, but I did start in nightmare mode, and I had been raiding the factories.

EDIT: I just got a message that one of my pot-dealing illegal immigrants "has been arrested", without the usual chase scene. Is this supposed to happen?

EDIT: I was trying to recruit some transients in a crack house with 9 charisma and no persuasion skill, and not only are they refusing to talk to me, I'm also not training my persuasion! Also, seduction feels harder than before, and it's really boring to grind.

EDIT: Repeated the experiment in the Vegan Co-op. The hippies are all like, "whatever" and I'm not gaining any persuasion skill. Also, the conservative high school drop outs there didn't notice I was naked. And I don't think I got any stealth skill either.

EDIT: I held 'w' down for a couple of months, and emerged with a point in persuasion and four in seduction. My juice didn't go down as much as I expected it to. I still can't seduce or recruit anyone. They eagerly talk to me, but respond with "whatever" to everything.

EDIT: CCS attacked a safe house and took it over. It's not listed in the 'z' safe house list, so I can't surrender, and I can't attack it because it's "too hot to risk".

THESE EDITS ARE GETTING SILLY: Started a new game. Started it off by getting my founder sentenced to jail for 26 years. Next, I walked over to the crack house, unarmed, and punched a teenager. Then, I held down 's'. The teenager was unable to hit me, and I got some free dodge skill. Holding down 'f' instead showed that I was likewise unable to damage the teenager. I managed to outrun the page full of gang members with 4 street sense. Also, it seems that I now own the crack house.

MORE AS THE STORY UNFOLDS: I converted the two remaining slum blocks in the same manner. Once I got some more martial arts skill, I was able to actually land a hit on a random teenager ever once in a while, which meant that the fights stopped on their own eventually, and I only got 940 juice instead of full 1000. It appears that the amount of juice you can get fighting a single opponent is uncapped, which has some hilarious consequences if you manage to keep a fight going for a very long time. My epic training montages have left me capable of running away from ANYTHING, so I will now try to liberate the nation with only my founder and a can of spray paint.

BEST GAME EVER: My founder was over fifty (she spend about half of that in prison), and to play it safe, I trained a child worker to help her, and take over in case she dies. Had to savescum once, when the child was shot. The nation is still legally a conservative hellhole, but the public pretty loves me. Juice from the graffiti activity trickles really slowly, but isn't capped. It takes like 20 years to max art skill. Oh, and while I was writing this, the conservative president was replaced by an elite liberal president in a landslide vote. This is the best version ever.

PAINTING A BETTER WORLD: For a couple of years, the entire congress was arch-conservative, trying to work against an elite-liberal president. A constitutional amendment passed, after a couple of tries, limiting them all to one term, and forcing a new election. The supreme court is still 4 C+ 4 C 1 M, but I expect they'll soon ditch them with another constitutional amendment. Yeah, that just happened.

ELITE LIBERAL: After I held 'w' down for a few more years, the laws inevitably passed to L+ in September 2051. My founder was just celebrating her 67th birthday. Over the course of the game, I recruited one person and killed two. The evil conservative empire was brought to its knees by a painter and her plucky sidekick. I played in Classic Mode, so the CCS was not an issue. It really only took 2-5 years to max art skill.

[praguepride]

EDIT: I just got a message that one of my pot-dealing illegal immigrants "has been arrested", without the usual chase scene. Is this supposed to happen?

It's like that in the old game too. I think if the stats are too low they just get caught. I've had several people doing things get auto-arrested.

EDIT: I was trying to recruit some transients in a crack house with 9 charisma and no persuasion skill, and not only are they refusing to talk to me, I'm also not training my persuasion! Also, seduction feels harder than before, and it's really boring to grind.

EDIT: Repeated the experiment in the Vegan Co-op. The hippies are all like, "whatever" and I'm not gaining any persuasion skill. Also, the conservative high school drop outs there didn't notice I was naked. And I don't think I got any stealth skill either.

EDIT: I held 'w' down for a couple of months, and emerged with a point in persuasion and four in seduction. My juice didn't go down as much as I expected it to. I still can't seduce or recruit anyone. They eagerly talk to me, but respond with "whatever" to everything.

I noticed you no longer gain persausion by talking to people in infiltrate mode, you only gain it by talking to them AFTER they show up for a meeting. I think you can still grind it by bluffing but that seems really dangerous...

As for seduction, it is much harder to get a date, but even if they reject you, you still gain some xp.

THESE EDITS ARE GETTING SILLY: Started a new game. Started it off by getting my founder sentenced to jail for 26 years. Next, I walked over to the crack house, unarmed, and punched a teenager. Then, I held down 's'. The teenager was unable to hit me, and I got some free dodge skill. Holding down 'f' instead showed that I was likewise unable to damage the teenager. I managed to outrun the page full of gang members with 4 street sense. Also, it seems that I now own the crack house.

It's not street sense, it's agility to out run. And if you cause enough mayhem at a crack house you take it over as a safe house. That's how it is in the current game as well.

MORE AS THE STORY UNFOLDS: I converted the two remaining slum blocks in the same manner. Once I got some more martial arts skill, I was able to actually land a hit on a random teenager ever once in a while, which meant that the fights stopped on their own eventually, and I only got 940 juice instead of full 1000. It appears that the amount of juice you can get fighting a single opponent is uncapped, which has some hilarious consequences if you manage to keep a fight going for a very long time. My epic training montages have left me capable of running away from ANYTHING, so I will now try to liberate the nation with only my founder and a can of spray paint.

That's how it always was.../sigh

[Ampersand]

The issue is that any skill in LCS is fairly easy to grind up to high  obscene levels.


Without so much RNG the first couple of weeks might be tricky, but once you have your 1000 juice, every combat skill in the 20's/every social skill in the 20's/every covert skill in the 20's it's hard to maintain game balance.

In the twenties, huh? What game are you playing?

[praguepride]

I've noticed that despite Nightmare mode's set up, it's still really easy to get the public on your side. You'd think there'd be some kind of "conservative momentum" that you' have to fight against.

Perhaps nightmare mode should make it very easy for public to swing back towards conservatism? So you have to keep active to keep things going liberal...

[Little]

While wandering around the CEO Residence...



 

EDIT:


After I fled the CEO Residence, I got into a car chase. Just for fun, I crashed my car and my wounded staggered out. My leader broke away, and then Dominic was shot. The game crashed after Dominic died.

[jasonred79]

ITHESE EDITS ARE GETTING SILLY: Started a new game. Started it off by getting my founder sentenced to jail for 26 years. Next, I walked over to the crack house, unarmed, and punched a teenager. Then, I held down 's'. The teenager was unable to hit me, and I got some free dodge skill. Holding down 'f' instead showed that I was likewise unable to damage the teenager. I managed to outrun the page full of gang members with 4 street sense. Also, it seems that I now own the crack house.

The only real change there seems to be that the accuracy for melee attacks has been nerfed? Which would be weird.
 
***
 
The pet pink elephants were always there, little.

[Necaladun]

Got some crashes from people dying, from my squad all dying, my car crashing. Kinda like an auto save-load at times, which ended up with it not crashing, while my entire upper-echelon were being broken out of jail, and dying in the the crash out. (It may help driving if you are in possession of your face.)

[praguepride]

It's still a pretty badass change

[Demonic Pancake]

Wait, you can go to a site and do brownies/donations/all that other stuff in the same day? Is that supposed to happen? Am I missing something?

Also, when you only have one person and you try to organize them it leaves the screen.

[Coronel_Niel]

I think it doesn't do it Demonic, it just doesnt revert back to nothing.

Also disguise is a LOT harder to grind. Persuasion is almost impossible.
People just don't talk to you anymore. 7 Persuasion and 10 Charisma and I some of these hippies think im mad.

[Grimith]

In my brief run of testing this new version:

• You can gain 1000 Juice before the end of the first day. I engaged in fisticuffs with a college student and a janitor at the Latte Stand. Hand-to-hand accuracy has definitely taken a nosedive; my founder never got hit the whole time he was swinging, and he swung enough to net 1000 Juice from those two. At the very least, since my founder had no dodging skills prior to the engagement, he should have been Lightly Wounded. But he didn't get scratched once.
• As already noted, Martial Arts skill is very noticeably harder to raise. I don't have an issue with that, since it can add a touch more difficulty to the game (depending on play-style). But it is quite noticeable.
• I think it's cool to be able to send your squad to Go Forth and Stop EVIL while still allowing them, at the same time, to steal a car on the same day. But allowing the indivudal liberals to do both squad and individual activities seems like a huge change to gameplay balance. Fewer Liberals can now do so much more.
• I really like how the apartment buildings (well, at least the one in Downtown that I visited) now actually look like apartment buildings. There's a coherent semblance to the form of rooms and whanot which is sorely lacking in the stable version. I haven't yet seen maps of the other buildings, but do sensible room structures appear in every site now? If so, that's definitely a change for the better. Many of the RNG's decisions in site construction have been rather... well, poor.
• I don't know if I just had bad luck, but I noticed that someone I tried to kidnap through usage of the crowbar still struggled and screamed. As far as I know, in the stable version, that's a tried and true method guaranteed to succeed against kidnappable targets. If that's another change in 4.02, I approve, but I would like to see kidnapping being taken further - for example, if you've kidnapped someone who's struggling and screaming, that should automatically alert any future Conservatives you come across unless you deal with them through some peaceful fashion.
• I experienced a game crash during Going Forth to Stop EVIL against the Garment Makers. While on-site, my founder freed an oppressed Liberal, took on a Security Guard, died, and the other person in the squad (the Liberal he had freed) died while I moved him towards the exit. No one else in the LCS had 100 Juice, so I should have gotten a game over instead of a game crash.

I recored a video (13:27 in length) during my test, in the event you want to look at something specific like the circumstances surrounding the game crash at the end (the Garment Makers adventure starts around 12:13), since me describing what happened and you seeing what happened are two different affairs.

[G-Flex]

The CEO changes mentioned above seem really odd to me, although most of the other things you guys are talking about sound pretty good (although I liked the interrogation options).

I really don't think there should be one-chance-only situations like that in LCS. The game is too volatile for that, and for one event to matter that much just seems odd, especially considering how random the game can be. It just feels weird to me to have this one, singular event that changes the game so much, and that can only happen once (aside from obvious things like L+/C+ amendments or whatever). I mean, even something as serious as your founder getting killed is a temporary problem if you manage to build your your squads back up in capability.

I agree that CEOs should be Very Important People, but I don't think the benefits of recruiting/killing them should be so serious. And if they are so important that there's only one, ever (as if they were the CEO of some huge, huge, huge corporation), that's still a bit strange, since other characters like that don't exist; it would be like having a sleeper Senator, although the implementation described sounds even better than that, by far.

Perhaps other types of corporate bigwigs could be introduced, as to provide the player with strong, rare recruits/sleepers but without such permanent, serious, effects, and who can exist in numbers. Corporate Executives, or Board Members or something.

[HLBeta]

It seems that my liberals' stats are going up instead of down as they get injured. When at the "Wounded" level, many of my characters will have 20s in their better statistics, leading to a bit of silliness with an on-foot chase sequence where a shotgun blast to the head gave one of my liberals superhuman speed, enabling him to escape his pursuit. It also means that my liberals can master almost any skill, provided that I beat them within an inch of their life first.

It also seems that martial arts counterattacks have been removed entirely or become much harder to perform (6MA vs. 0MA yields no counters). I have yet to check other forms of melee combat.

EDIT:
It seems that not all injuries are reversed. I noticed it while having my liberals train martial arts and dodge mostly against unarmed opponents, so bruises are certainly glitched and gunshot wounds as well. Loss of a nose still damaged a liberal's Charisma though.