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[gammaflux]

Well I just died once again trying to clear a criminal city by attacking it's marketplace. My character got tired and a lucky shot from a hammer man just destroyed any chance of me getting back up to fight. Has anyone actually managed to defeat a marketplace heavily guarded with troops?

[Proudnerd]

Some goblin farmers woudlnt tell me the location of quests, so I as a human with a greataxe started attacking them. One hammerman came after me and I hit him, breaking his spine but not the nervous tissue. He stayed unconscious for a long time so I took his warhammer away and waited for him to wake up. A goblin pikemen who ran away from me earlier and kept shouting that he must withdraw while i fought the hammerman then ran up and killed the unconscious hammerman and came after me. I cut him in the upper body, tearing his lung apart and told him to yield.

He said "you first coward" before yelling for someone to save him and trying to run away. I threw my knife at him and it hit him in the spine, fracturing it and causing him to lose conciseness, which stopped him running pretty fast. I then took his pike and stabbed him in the head with it.

[Robsoie]

Well I just died once again trying to clear a criminal city by attacking it's marketplace. My character got tired and a lucky shot from a hammer man just destroyed any chance of me getting back up to fight. Has anyone actually managed to defeat a marketplace heavily guarded with troops?

careful with those "criminal cities", in fact they're near-completely normal (citizen and soldiers you'll find there are not criminal at all) it's just the group owning it is an actual bandit civ.

And if you seek the owner to the castle and get rid of the soldiers and the ruler , you just killed innocent people because unfortunately for you with how it's broken now, they're not member of the bandit civ owning the city and will be called a murderer by every other NPC (even by the guys that pointed you this city as crime owned)

Apparently the actual owner that is supposed to be running the criminal town is -sometime- found in the basement of the castle, he has the usual criminal name "overlord", "boss", etc... so at least you can't mistake him for a normal NPC.

But here comes the other part of DF broken stuff : getting rid of that crime "overlord" is the same as getting rid of the other innocent (i mean not affiliated to that specific crime ring) average NPC, you will still be labelled as a murderer by everyone.

[smjjames]

Except that the bosses and overlords (and similar) that you find in the dungeons and some temples are often NOT of the criminal gang you're looking for.

Several versions ago (before the 'all shops become taverns on insurrection' bug was fixed), I tried doing this in one of those small towns. Looked in the temples and the dungeons, none of the outcasts in there were of the one I was looking for. I tried to get the name of the leader or get someone to guide me to them, but no luck. Had to go into legends viewer (and legends mode since the XML is incomplete) to find who I'm supposed to be looking for. Even then, I had to search through the whole town (which got hit by the insurrection bug) and found them in a random tavern.

I've also noticed that they no longer have the groups of bandits with them like they did in 34.11. Most of the time it's just the leader by themselves. If they're a weaponmaster, they'll have a few other elites with them. The goblins are more likely to have lieutenants, but even then, there's no other members most of the time.

[Rumrusher]

last time I started in a camp as a luietentant of one of those single leaders, found out I was in a nomad Camp, so yeah bandits seem to be mostly gone. I also notice bandits don't murder townsfolk more so just rob them, the only time they start killin is when they try to rob you, and you don't properly yield and drop your items in time. other than that they pretty much not breaking any serious 'put the guy to death' laws

Code: [Select]

for dwarves:
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ONLY_IF_SANCTIONED]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PUNISH_SERIOUS]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_SERIOUS]
for Humans aka most complaints goes to:
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:JUSTIFIED_IF_GOOD_REASON]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:JUSTIFIED_IF_NO_REPERCUSSIONS]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PUNISH_SERIOUS]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:PUNISH_SERIOUS]
so robbers fall under the punish_serious bit but killing them needs to have no repercussion?  then there's the whole how to explain you had a good reason to murder a guy to an NPC with laws made for Fort mode?
I guess punish serious just means Hammererin'
which means adventure aren't official hammerers thus end up getting hit with the crime of murdering Neutral folks

[Robsoie]

Ah very good find !

That could be the source of the problem ! if bandits are demoted to just being thieves only and thievery isn't punishable in adventure mode due to the ethics requiring a hammerer (that do not exist in adventure), that would explain why things do not make sense anymore regarding bandits and that everyone is happy friend forever "long live the cause" with all those criminal rings.

Though looking back at the 34.11 raws thievery had the same "punish serious" (humans&dwarves) or "punish reprimand" (the elves).
I wonder where things are broken exactly then

[Rumrusher]

Ah very good find !

That could be the source of the problem ! if bandits are demoted to just being thieves only and thievery isn't punishable in adventure mode due to the ethics requiring a hammerer (that do not exist in adventure), that would explain why things do not make sense anymore regarding bandits and that everyone is happy friend forever "long live the cause" with all those criminal rings.

Though looking back at the 34.11 raws thievery had the same "punish serious" (humans&dwarves) or "punish reprimand" (the elves).
I wonder where things are broken exactly then

it's  mostly there's no hammerer for human civilizations I wonder if you did a crime on a dwarf fort with a hammerer present you get smacked.  SCIENCE would be to make a fort, assign half the fort with with hammerering jobs, then do a crime nearby.

[endlessblaze]

teem this is endlessblaze speaking I have recived orders from the universe. I am to give you this message with a cool sound effect.

do it.


I would myself but im still not good enough at this.

[pisskop]

Is anybody else having trouble using (P) (W) or (D) to access light, date, or temp data?  It wont show for me. :|

[Ziusudra]

Is anybody else having trouble using (P) (W) or (D) to access light, date, or temp data?  It wont show for me. :|

Actually, yeah. Now that you mention it, several other "announcements" don't show. 40.19 here, you?

[pisskop]

Yupper.  Ill submit a bug report then.

[smjjames]

Yupper.  Ill submit a bug report then.

Are you getting any 'empty announcement ###' errors in the errorlog associated with those? I haven't had any problems with the temperature, light, and date 'announcements'.

What OS are you using? I see you didn't mention that in the bug report. I use windows 8 and no problems with those keys.

Edit: Ziusudra says that they use Linux, so maybe it's a Linux problem.

[Robsoie]

I was trying to see if there was a non-lethal way to solve the bandit harrassing thing in town, as everyone seems to be happy friend in DF2014 , so i ordered a goblin that was constantly strapping/wielding his weapons ( and that was harrassing people by telling them to yield) to yield.

As usual he replied "you first coward" , i then asked him how he felt and how he was thinking about me

so a bandit harrassing innocent citizens with the threat of his DF-ultimateweapon scourge call me a thugh and bully


*sigh* trying hard to not facepalm at how much no sense things are making in df2014 ...
(and note the constantly strap/draw weapon things, the gob has been going at this for a long time i observed the scene)

edit : getting even better, as i wasn't seeing any dialogue option that could solve the problem in a "happy friend forever" way , i decided to try non lethal punching in the face
I was a bit annoyed to be forced to go there because i had a party member.
But i was pleasantly surprised to see him punching the gobs (they were 4 ) in the faces instead of axe murdering them, breaking my non lethal test.

I managed to punch unconscious the goblin that told me i was a thugh, and after several punches, a 2nd goblin ran away.
I went to help my ally that was in a punch and wrestle contest with another of those bandits and after a few punchs (attacks land everytime it seems when you're attacking someone that is attacking someone else), he decided to yield.
I ordered him to give me his weapon (a scourge) just in case some non lethal code would crap out and the gob would try to murder us with those omnipowerful scourge, and he accepted.
My friend during that time was moving to the 4th bandit gob that was standing all that time without helping his bandit pals.

After trying to see if there were some new dialogue options, and finding none i decided to ask the guy how he was feeling, then how he was thinking of me and :


yeah, bandit robbing people accusing me to be a brigand *facepalm*

edit 2
And the unconscious gob got back to his sense, my ally rushed and punched him, i started to help and asked him to yield, he ran away , too fast for armored me (i don't yet have armor skill at more than proficient and so i couldn't follow) , asked him to yield but he refused, then after me trying to follow and my ally trying to punch the running away gob the game just crashed with the classic "dwarf fortress has encountered an error"

Unfortunately, out of the gamelog there's strangely no error log this time, impossible to build a report about this serious problem, though probably related to existing bug reports with fights crashing anyways.
Oh well, i guess i'll wait for a few more versions before replaying , hoping those long time present and reported annoying bugs and broken relations are fixed.

[smjjames]

Heh, I had a bunch of elven bandits not be able to get past the 'Hello <adventurers first name>' point, even though they had me surrounded.

[Quartz_Mace]

I'm marching a band of 5 soldiers into the heart of the Goblin Capitol and slaughtering everything on sight. I'm coming for you, Demon!