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Author Topic: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak  (Read 27983 times)

Spectre

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[0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« on: April 03, 2010, 10:04:07 am »

I was training a 9 dwarves strong squad for over a year and just now my jeweler went beserk because i dont have any gems dug out. So I sent them in to do a little policing, but they just cant get him.
They battle now for ~over 2 months against a dwarf with no military skills and they lose slowly.
I have 2 recruits with mayor injuries while the beserk dwarf only sustained some mangeld fingers and heals his bruises!
Meanwhile I seem to suceed in starving him to death, as all dwarves in that battle are now starving and dehydrated.
And some of those recuits even started they military career with average skills in fighting or armor-using.

Considering that I wanted to train them so I could explore the underground...
It seems I wouldnt get 2 feets into the first cavern. That is simply not fun.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 10:10:44 am by Spectre »
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Qiu

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 10:17:59 am »

Maybe your jeweler is superdwarvenly agile/tough ?  :o
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Spectre

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 10:28:56 am »

I checked him after he went berserk. Since he was an enemy at this point, all I got was a description where it said he was fat. I looked just now and it says he has 'bulky muscles'  :-\

And one of my recruits just bleed out...

You would think 9 dwarves with at least a slightly military training and leather armor could finish a civilian before they died of thirst, which I now expect every second.

I think I should abandon this lot of elves...

Edit: Just now my second jeweler got possessed, runs strait trough the fighting mob and starts demanding gems..
2Edit: My bersek jeweler has now so much muscles, that his body got upgraded to 'large'. Just now he put down 2 recruits in quick succession, so that they wont stand up again for quite some time.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 10:41:48 am by Spectre »
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Rotten

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 10:35:21 am »

Are your military wrestlers? Because wrestlers are way underpowered compared to the last version (if I remember correctly, purposefully). I had one punch a berserk soap maker about 30 times, barely bruising him. An axe dwarf then came up and killed the guy in one swipe. Wrestlers really do need a boost.
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True, but at a certain velocity the resulting explosion expels invader-bits at fatal speeds. You don't want to be dropping trogdolyte-shaped shrapnel bombs into your boneworks.
Only in Dwarf Fortress...

Spectre

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 10:47:04 am »

Yeah they are wrestlers, but so is the jeweler.
And just know they finaly killed him! And I only lost 2 of 9 dwarfes with 3 more dwarfs being in the hospital. And nobody starved while fighting! Allthoug all my wrestlers are rushing to the foodstockpiles right now.
If you ask me, there is something mayor not right.
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Orkel

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2010, 10:59:19 am »

Train swordsdwarves. Wrestlers seem really weak from my experience.
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Chronas

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2010, 11:07:59 am »

swordsdwarves are the way to go for sure, my adventurer got epic advances in maces/fighting from systematically breaking the bones of wolves with a light mace, recovered some good quality bronze plate -then died after being stabbed in the brain by a run-of-mill swordsgoblin in a single stroke
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...
It should be pretty fun though.

shadow_archmagi

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2010, 11:29:37 am »

Currently, blunt weapons are pathetically weak. Piercing not much better.  Only slashing is helpful.
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Raging Mouse

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2010, 03:09:32 pm »

I think I know what's going on. Our military dwarves somehow have gotten into their skulls that they're supposed to attack the outermost extremities of an enemy, while the opposition goes straight for the vital organs. Whenever I check the wounds screen of foes they've got red fingers and toes, while my dwarves have a more conventional spread of wounds.

N.B. this goes for at least wrestlers, axedwarves and swordsdwarves.
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Zombie

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2010, 03:48:20 am »

My dwarves seem to like touching fish people. All the time my dwarves try to grapple the damn things. I think the whole lot of my military have some weird fetish or something.
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Firehound

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2010, 06:50:32 am »

Wrestlers are not underpowered. They are however more realistic.

Axe>hand.

Other forms of damage are a little underpowered, but Wrestling should be amazingly useless.

Though I appear to be the exception. all my wrestlers have figured out the art of cutting their opponents with the enviroment. I keep finding trog blood all over from my legendary wrestler.

Another reason Wrestlers suck now is they no longer are invulnerable to attacks now that Dodging is part of the Dodger skill instead of Wrestler.
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Sphalerite

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2010, 07:34:08 am »

How did you manage to not dig out any gems?  In 31.0x I can't dig a bedroom without hitting a gem cluster.
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Nerserus

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2010, 11:27:15 am »

Are your military wrestlers? Because wrestlers are way underpowered compared to the last version (if I remember correctly, purposefully). I had one punch a berserk soap maker about 30 times, barely bruising him. An axe dwarf then came up and killed the guy in one swipe. Wrestlers really do need a boost.
Wrestling has been nerfed senseless. Heck I preferred when it was OP...

I've done Arena mode. Wrestling is useless. Even if you have MAXIMUM. Skills. You don't usually break bones.

Now I know in real life you don't punch someone in the face and their head mangles and their brain "breaks" and their eyes explode...But, you also don't take 100000000 punches from a dwarven Chuck Norris and keep running too.

As for millitary. It's bitter sweet; sometimes they're epic. Sometimes they fail. Pure luck really, the new "Artery" wounds make even a slight cut lethal. My axedwarf, dabbling in skill hit a rutherer and killed it within a few turns. Just a small cut. Literally.

But, when another one bit him, it was on his leg I believe. He died before I knew what happened.
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Treason

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2010, 12:02:14 pm »

Military seems hit or miss in the current (admittedly buggy) version.  I've had dwarfs die to Elk Birds, of all things, while in another fortress (that died to an unknown crash) I had four decently equipped dwarfs take out two forgotten beasts in up-close and personal combat without taking a scratch.  They weren't even trained beyond Adequate, as I still am loath to take full advantage of the military scheduling system.  I've used it once and it just felt..clunky.  And buggy, I mentioned that earlier, no?
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SwiftSpear

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Re: [0.31.01] Military forces are just to weak
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2010, 04:19:33 pm »

Wrestlers are not underpowered. They are however more realistic.

Axe>hand.

Other forms of damage are a little underpowered, but Wrestling should be amazingly useless.

Though I appear to be the exception. all my wrestlers have figured out the art of cutting their opponents with the enviroment. I keep finding trog blood all over from my legendary wrestler.

Another reason Wrestlers suck now is they no longer are invulnerable to attacks now that Dodging is part of the Dodger skill instead of Wrestler.
Mmmm, Weapon fighting vs Wrestling:  Large weapons, like axes, longswords, maces, spears, whips, and crossbows...  Are very easy to disarm or at very least disable.  So an excellent wrestler with good enough agility has a reasonable chance of defeating a large weapon opponent.  Wrestlers with enough skill should be able to break limbs and apply chokes, however, it would take much more time to kill an opponent than with pretty much any weapon, so if there is more than 1 opponent the wrestler gets tied up with 1, and killed by the other.

Striking should be less useful against any type of weapon, but potentially more useful against multiple weak opponents, and about on par with wrestling (if the wrestler attacks a striker neither has a clear advantage).

Small weapons, short sworts and daggers, should dominate wrestlers, and edge out strikers, but lose to most large weapons (unless it's used in conjunction with wrestling, disarm the large weapon opponent and THEN stab them).  Small weapons are extremely difficult to disarm without getting seriously hurt, but of course, they don't have the damage potential or range of a large weapon.
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