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Author Topic: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him  (Read 58997 times)

Biopass

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2011, 01:03:19 pm »

...Finnish-style saunas or something, right?

Is there any other kind?

That said, the world sauna championship foes above 106 IIRC. And that's not dry. The people who haven't done anything like it before? Their skin melts and sloughs off. It's pretty nasty.

Magma should kill you very fast. Like, faster even than 40d.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2011, 05:06:09 pm »

But by your logic, people should like swimming in boiling water, because people hang out in saunas that are 100 degrees C (212 F). The difference, of course, is that low-humidity air doesn't transfer as much heat as swimming in water of the same temperature would.

Since when is the air in a sauna "low-humidity"?

Also, I did some research, and sauna temperatures don't go nearly that high. However, I do see 90 degrees as a sort of upper bound.

Wait, I think I know what's going on. You're probably thinking of the dry Finnish-style saunas or something, right?

Yeah, dry saunas. The reason they can be so hot is BECAUSE they're dry. A wetter sauna has to have a lower temperature.

It's the same reason that where I'm from, people hate the humidity more than the heat. A dry heat is more bearable - you can sweat, you heat up more slowly, etc. Humid air is thicker, which means it transfers heat more effectively. This goes both ways, of course, and is why being cold AND wet is so dangerous - your body gets cooled down far faster.

The basic principle - dense materials transfer heat more quickly - is the same. Magma should kill you in mere seconds. As someone else pointed earlier in this thread, it sets stuff on fire just from radiant heat alone.
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G-Flex

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2011, 05:30:00 pm »

It's the same reason that where I'm from, people hate the humidity more than the heat. A dry heat is more bearable - you can sweat, you heat up more slowly, etc. Humid air is thicker, which means it transfers heat more effectively. This goes both ways, of course, and is why being cold AND wet is so dangerous - your body gets cooled down far faster.

It's less about the air being "thicker" and more about it having water in it. Water transfers temperature well.

Also, condensation leads to an increase in temperature (equivalent to the opposite of the loss in temperature due to evaporation), and evaporation (of e.g. sweat) is less likely/rapid when the air is more humid.

Quote
The basic principle - dense materials transfer heat more quickly - is the same. Magma should kill you in mere seconds. As someone else pointed earlier in this thread, it sets stuff on fire just from radiant heat alone.

Yep. You're wrong about that applying to air humidity, though. Humid air is actually less dense on average. I can't say the full list of reasons why humid air is less comfortable in heat, but less efficient sweating is a major one.

At any rate, I think the reasons for magma being less deadly than it should be (try pouring the stuff on creatures in arena mode; it's less harmful than boiling water is in reality, which says something) are pretty well-documented at this point. Fat is weird as hell, other tissues also have poor heat/cold damage thresholds and possibly odd phase change temperature, we still don't know how good or reliable DF is about transferring heat between body layers and the surrounding environment (or how well body layers insulate), and the game obviously doesn't represent the effects of extreme heat and cold very well on body systems (especially the brain), especially those effects that aren't related to simple tissue damage.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2011, 08:48:29 pm »

Quote
The basic principle - dense materials transfer heat more quickly - is the same. Magma should kill you in mere seconds. As someone else pointed earlier in this thread, it sets stuff on fire just from radiant heat alone.

Yep. You're wrong about that applying to air humidity, though. Humid air is actually less dense on average. I can't say the full list of reasons why humid air is less comfortable in heat, but less efficient sweating is a major one.


Interesting. I guess, in practice, the following never happens:

Quote
So when water molecules (vapor) are introduced into that volume of dry air, the number of air molecules in the volume must decrease by the same number, if the temperature and pressure remain constant.

Typically, when you introduce wetter air, it's probably warmer, and you're probably increasing the pressure as well.

Regardless. Magma should kill you very fast, and certainly faster than it does.
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G-Flex

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2011, 02:15:43 am »

Why would the air pressure increase? I mean, it would if we're talking about a closed volume of air, but we're not; the air would just expand.

You could test this yourself by checking a weather site for barometric pressure on a humid day vs. a dry day, I guess, or just looking up figures.
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Shrimp12345

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2012, 11:59:00 am »

Man, I love this place. Your arguing about how and how fast exposure to magma would kill you.
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Wrex

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2012, 04:22:39 am »

Just add an incineration temprature to bodily tissue, problem solved.
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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2014, 05:23:58 am »

Yeah, Wrex is right. A few modding for body materials and magma is suddenly deadly (and dragonbreath, and even fireballs).
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iceball3

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2014, 12:38:41 am »

Yeah, Wrex is right. A few modding for body materials and magma is suddenly deadly (and dragonbreath, and even fireballs).
I think you would just set the HEATDAM point much lower and the combustion point quite a bit higher. The reason for both adjustments is simply because the amount of fluids in your body as well as implied countermeasures to being on fire could imply that being completely on fire in an unstoppable inferno would be rather difficult, but being scorched something really nasty. Probably set the heat damage point to somewhere around boiling eh. Much lower for the internal organs which have a lot harder time functioning in high temperatures, as well as bodily secretions with somewhat low starting temperatures to simulate sweat cooling someone off. I'll go give modding this a try!
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BFEL

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Re: [0.31.01] Magma sea drowns adventurer faster than burns him
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2014, 06:02:01 pm »

Just though I would chime in that a possible reason for the "drowning in magma faster then burning" might have something to do with the OP being in Adventure Mode, because Adventure Mode has a very condensed timeframe compared to dwarf mode. Basically one "turn" of burning in DM could be 100 times longer then one "turn" of burning in AM.
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