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Author Topic: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?  (Read 3703 times)

Afterburner

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Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« on: April 15, 2010, 01:25:31 pm »

It's like writer's block, only it's with Dwarf Fortress.  There is something ineffably frustrating to me about starting a new map.

I have a hard time with the blank expanse of untouched terrain.  The possibilities in a new map are large, and I am stymied by my choices for fear of making the wrong choice.  I don't want to get halfway through digging out THIS section of hillside only to discover two game years down the road that I should have dug out THAT section of hillside instead.  But, of course, I feel the same way about THAT section of hillside, too.

Once I actually get started, the process becomes easier, because the scope of my possible choices narrows down considerably.  But getting started is often difficult for me.

(I have this exact same problem with other builder games, particularly Pharaoh.)
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Ultimuh

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 01:27:54 pm »

Oh this is a problem I also have.
I always regret it when I dig out a nice fortress only to discover it would be better on the other side.
Or that I should have put the entrance somewhere else, or that the farms are missplaced.
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2010, 01:35:18 pm »

Or that you put your entrance through a nice vein of minerals and it sure would be nice to have your dining hall or communal bedroom there instead.
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Scarpa

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 01:37:57 pm »

I block around the end of the first year. Once the frenzy of initial setup is done, and I've got a big pool of migrants I get overwhelmed thinking of all the different things to do.

I do the same thing in mid-game in Chess. ;)
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Interus

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2010, 02:18:10 pm »

I block around the end of the first year. Once the frenzy of initial setup is done, and I've got a big pool of migrants I get overwhelmed thinking of all the different things to do.

I do the same thing in mid-game in Chess. ;)


That's about what happens to me, although I'm closer to the end of the second year.  I want to do something, but all I can think of is dig and wait for the people who are working to skill up I guess and look at my pitiful military and maybe dig a little and wait some more.

Maybe I should move deeper and build a new fortress, eventually abandoning the upper levels even further.  But I wanna keep my surface farms too... Maybe a topside fortress?  Hehe, I think I just fixed my problem!  We'll see when I open it back up.
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Xehon

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2010, 02:27:10 pm »

I'm in a constant state of block. When I first look at the embark map I can easily spend half an hour to look around for the perfect spot(ok, this spot has a nice flat space and both sedimentary layers and a obsidian layer, but I want more marble, also, a river). Then at the embark setup I'm constantly changing my setup and C+A+D-ing to reroll my initial 7. When I finally get to the game it self after an hour or two, I have to make a save, a backup and a revealed version to plan out my fortress, then I spend another hour debating with my self how to build the fortress. When I finally get to play the fort its already time to go to bed and the next day I no longer feel like playing the same fortress, so I regen a new world and begin anew.
My DF OCD is do bad I wanna cry...
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Interus

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2010, 02:33:25 pm »

I'm in a constant state of block. When I first look at the embark map I can easily spend half an hour to look around for the perfect spot(ok, this spot has a nice flat space and both sedimentary layers and a obsidian layer, but I want more marble, also, a river). Then at the embark setup I'm constantly changing my setup and C+A+D-ing to reroll my initial 7. When I finally get to the game it self after an hour or two, I have to make a save, a backup and a revealed version to plan out my fortress, then I spend another hour debating with my self how to build the fortress. When I finally get to play the fort its already time to go to bed and the next day I no longer feel like playing the same fortress, so I regen a new world and begin anew.
My DF OCD is do bad I wanna cry...

Do you really need to optimize it that much?  Admittedly, I once abandoned a fortress because the way I wanted to build it got ruined by an aquifer(which I later realized was actually blocking the area I wanted to turn into a channeled out cistern) so I can see why you'd want a place to go according to plan.  Still, isn't it more fun to just start building somewhere and see what you get instead of finding the perfect area?  So just optimize your team and find a good embark point, and then just settle in at an area that looks nice from the surface.

Oh, and save your team once you get it perfect once so that you don't have to do it every time, then you can skip that step and spend more time OCDing about the other stuff.
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Ilmoran

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2010, 02:41:05 pm »

I'm similar on the embark:  I actually spent about 2 hours generating worlds, looking at the overland map, generate a new world, look at the overland map, embark a couple spots, look around, generate a new world, etc, etc.

Once I got my embark region picked out, I did a reveal and picked out where my central staircase will be so that I can dig down to the magma without incident, and planning my first few floors (about 30 minutes total).

Of course, I have subsequently adapted my fortress so it only resembles about 60% of my careful planning, and I know it's going to get worse.  But I'm not having trouble thinking up stuff to do now!

I also have 2 future plans I want to work on.  One of them requires a new embark.  The other, I may try to do on my current fortress, I would need to look at the reveal of it again.  Alternatively, I might save the second for a new fort as well, and incorporate it into my original design.
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Kittah_Khan

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 02:42:16 pm »

Not really, I advise you use the caverns to set your forts up in.
You can do wonderful things if you simply follow the terrain instead of reshaping everything to your wishes.
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KcKelley

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2010, 03:18:55 pm »

Ive found that a lot of preplanning tends to hurt the game for me, in part because of the block. Lately I've taken to finding a pretty spot and going from there. I have preplanned workshop layouts and stuff that I can put where ever they fit best as I find spots. In my current fort I've accidentally breached the top of a large cavern where my housing was going to go. having to plan on the fly and build around that is proving to be a ton of fun as opposed to knowing where everything is going to be before I strike the earth.
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Foxbyte

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 03:27:20 pm »

I suffer pretty badly from FB, but I've found steps I can take to get by it. I keep saves handy of two steps in my fortress's life; right at embark, and then once my population hits about 40. I don't start building my fort outright, though. I find a hill nearby a cliff, or another out of the way spot to build an organically designed temporary living space that can be self sufficient. Usually involves popping one or two lakes. Next, I work on the waterworks of the upcoming fortress; I like to have water going along the main routes [my forts tend to be mostly horizontal, not vertical] so I have a gigantic cistern, usually built on a patch of magnetite because I was going to mine that stuff out anyway.

Once I have a few miners, no problem. If I want to change design, I can go back to a backup!
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PencilinHand

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 03:36:29 pm »

My first fort that actually got far enough to trade was a horrible nightmare of suckage when it comes to path finding and ergonomic optimization, since then I have aimed for smaller/leaner forts.  I find I usually am a slow start for forts because I am not happy until I have printed up a reveal map(I savescumm to undo the reveal) and uploaded it to df maps so I can decide how to proceed.  Once I do though, I usually roll out my fort in stages and don't have that much trouble, though I do occasionally get writers block for DF.

The slow start and other such problems has more to do with managing my limited computer resources by not complicating a fort design, than anything else.  If there isn't enough room free of obstruction and other odd bits I will pick a different spot or rethink how my fort should look.  I prefer to have the face of my fort work with the topography.  However, it is often the case that the natural topography sucks for defense(like an easily accessible hill that overlooks almost all of my entrance courtyard), so I also do what is necessary to secure the location.

I actually have stuck to adv. mode with the new release, so I am speaking from my experience with 40d and before.  I will probably build my first fort in the new version with 0.31.05 or .06.  Adv. mode and reporting bugs has been keeping me occupied and there are less game breaking and crash bugs related to it than fortress mode.
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tastypaste

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 04:42:53 pm »

I just plow ahead building as I go with a general blueprint in mind, one based loosely on previous forts. I know I'll make mistakes or run into mineral deposits where I don't want them, but that's just the nature of digging into unknown ground. I also change my mind frequently and wind up building random new structures all over the place. But I like my fort to grow organically based on immediate needs. They're not pretty and they won't win any design awards, but they're highly functional and efficient.
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Fikes

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2010, 04:51:06 pm »

You guys sound like a  bunch of elves.

It is more true in df2010 than ever that you'll always find everything you need to make your fortress work. The game is much more fun when you only generally prepare for things. Like when you dig into a river to flood your farms and let in too much water. Or when you can't remember if floor hatchs prevent caveins (they don't) and end up causing small injuries.

Other than farming and militiary failing, it is hard to completely ruin your fort with a lack of planning.

Ilmoran

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Re: Anybody else suffer from "fortress block"?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2010, 04:55:35 pm »

You guys sound like a  bunch of elves.

It is more true in df2010 than ever that you'll always find everything you need to make your fortress work. The game is much more fun when you only generally prepare for things. Like when you dig into a river to flood your farms and let in too much water. Or when you can't remember if floor hatchs prevent caveins (they don't) and end up causing small injuries.

Other than farming and militiary failing, it is hard to completely ruin your fort with a lack of planning.

The game is much more fun when you play it the way you enjoy.  Some people like planning to varying degrees.  Let them.
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