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[Kogan Loloklam]

Obviously everyone else just wants to make sure their tool continues to be useful.

This is the only point of a Wiki, to be useful to as many people as possible.

[Emi]

Obviously everyone else just wants to make sure their tool continues to be useful.

This is the only point of a Wiki, to be useful to as many people as possible.

That's definitely not the only point of Wikis. But regardless of that point -- IE will work, it's priority is just extremely low.

As for "the current software is fine"... it really isn't. We've had to do so many workarounds and spend a lot of time trying to get mediawiki to do what we need, all without heavily modding to the point where we can no longer upgrade to newer versions. There are also several things (like limiting the random page button to a specific namespace) that people have asked for that we just can't do.

Rather than complaining that IE won't have perfect support right away, or that it's unnecessary to create new software, we'd appreciate it if you'd let us know what you'd like to see in Magmawiki. 

[Calhoun]

As far as the actual project goes, I'm really looking forward to it.

Honestly, the more available platforms the better. It's also Open Source, which is even better. Emi, and everyone else who's apart of making this. I tip my hat to you.

The wiki will be better because of it. The Open Source community will be stronger because of it. We should do our best to help them to help us.

[Mason11987]

As for "the current software is fine"... it really isn't. We've had to do so many workarounds and spend a lot of time trying to get mediawiki to do what we need, all without heavily modding to the point where we can no longer upgrade to newer versions. There are also several things (like limiting the random page button to a specific namespace) that people have asked for that we just can't do.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Special:Random/DF2010



Edit - Fixed link

[Xgamer4]

Analytics information of dwarf fortress wiki visitors (since I began collecting statistics, about 6 months ago):

Position	Browser	Unique Visitors	Percentage of Visitors
1	Firefox	282,288	64.49%
2	Chrome	56,204	12.84%
3	Safari	41,678	9.52%
4	Internet Explorer	28,591	6.53%
5	Opera	22,312	5.10%
6	Playstation 3	4,573	1.04%
7	All others	2,054	0.48%

Outta curiosity, is it possible to break those down into version numbers? While I have no particular sympathy for  users who don't upgrade, it'll give at least some idea just how many people you'd be alienating.

[Emi]

As for "the current software is fine"... it really isn't. We've had to do so many workarounds and spend a lot of time trying to get mediawiki to do what we need, all without heavily modding to the point where we can no longer upgrade to newer versions. There are also several things (like limiting the random page button to a specific namespace) that people have asked for that we just can't do.

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Special:Random/DF2010



Edit - Fixed link

Err, I meant a subset of namespaces. So like df2010 and 40d but not the rest. But you knew that.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Obviously everyone else just wants to make sure their tool continues to be useful.

This is the only point of a Wiki, to be useful to as many people as possible.

That's definitely not the only point of Wikis.

Oh? What else could possibly be the value in a Wiki except to be useful? Abstract art?

Yes, the current software IS fine, because it works. That's my one request for the new Wiki, that it works. Workarounds are better than being non-functional. As such, it'd be really nice if you got it working before running a conversion, and leave the old stuff up until such point that the new stuff can meet the same standards the old stuff can meet. You both (Emi and Locriani) have stated that it should work fine for the latest IE eventually, so just don't set it as the primary system until it functions as well as what is currently used.

[Locriani]

Obviously everyone else just wants to make sure their tool continues to be useful.

This is the only point of a Wiki, to be useful to as many people as possible.

That's definitely not the only point of Wikis.

Oh? What else could possibly be the value in a Wiki except to be useful? Abstract art?

Yes, the current software IS fine, because it works. That's my one request for the new Wiki, that it works. Workarounds are better than being non-functional. As such, it'd be really nice if you got it working before running a conversion, and leave the old stuff up until such point that the new stuff can meet the same standards the old stuff can meet. You both (Emi and Locriani) have stated that it should work fine for the latest IE eventually, so just don't set it as the primary system until it functions as well as what is currently used.

Actually, no, the current wiki does NOT work.  I spend countless hours on maintenance for the current wiki to prevent it from exploding like a bomb and just flat out failing.  If I were to leave on vacation for a week, the wiki would end up being down for 4 days.  Do you consider that functional?

We have already stated that we're not going to switch to the new system until it is functional.  All the issues you are raising have been addressed, and the issues you are raising are not actually contributing anything to this discussion.  We opened this thread so we can get feedback on desired ancillary features for the new wiki.

I'm not interested in further debate on the merits of IE or IE support, especially as we've already stated we will be getting around to it.  If you are worried about this, I invite you to contribute some code to the project instead of words to this thread--the former will actually accomplish something useful, the latter will only take developer time away from programming while we answer your questions.

[Atanamis]

The most obvious DF specific feature would be a raw file importer that filled in property values automatically wherever possible. Ideally long term the raw files would have enough detail to make much of the user documentation self-generating.

[therahedwig]

The most obvious DF specific feature would be a raw file importer that filled in property values automatically wherever possible. Ideally long term the raw files would have enough detail to make much of the user documentation self-generating.

That's true, but on the other hand, the a good user-written article is still better then a generated one.

I could understand that it would be useful to make sure there aren't any missing articles(a stand-in), but I wouldn't want a generated work to become the final result.

[ronnyfire]

(stuff)... We can change their silly profession from IEuser to !!Dwarf!! pretty easily once they arrive in the meeting hall... (more stuff)

Fixed that for you.

On the subject of IE support, I'm sure someone will step up and assist with that aspect eventually, a lot of people on this forum are resourceful and helpful, especially when it comes to helping the new people learn whats up.

Edit: Hah, no more messed up quoting xD

[Nexii Malthus]

I'd love to use the newer wiki engine to help support development myself on my own community. Will there be instructions or anything to help others set it up once it's in a more stable form?

[Emi]

Yeah I'm sure there will be. Though the python and ruby sandboxing (for templates and such) is going to be a pain for most people to set up I fear.

[Shades]

Yeah I'm sure there will be. Though the python and ruby sandboxing (for templates and such) is going to be a pain for most people to set up I fear.

Assuming you sandbox in some kind of virtual machine couldn't you just place a copy somewhere? All nicely setup then

[Untelligent]

As long as the normal wiki skin stays in (or at least something resembling it as much as possible with magmawiki), I'm fine with whatever you guys are doing over there in your arcane fortress of web development.