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[Vester]

This should be stickied, or at least brought to Toady's attention. A lot of people are wondering why everything made out of flesh is weak and ineffective.

[derigo]

Its pretty well documented on the bug tracker, footkerchief knows all about it, and therefore toady should as well.  I just posted it here to bring it to everyone else's attention.

[Kazang]

This should be stickied, or at least brought to Toady's attention. A lot of people are wondering why everything made out of flesh is weak and ineffective.

Quoting and bumping this.

I'm assuming this fix is not included in the 31.04 build or it would have been mentioned.  But a fix this easy should be made official asap I would have thought, as it appears to be a simple case of right number wrong line which is very common mistake when writing stuff like this.

[HeliumFreak]

Id like to point out that this is in no way a "fix" as a minor patchup job. The values are probably no way as accurate as Toady would like (seeing how anal he is) and it dosent resolve the issue of attacks being deflected or bouncing off way too often.

[derigo]

Id like to point out that this is in no way a "fix" as a minor patchup job. The values are probably no way as accurate as Toady would like (seeing how anal he is) and it dosent resolve the issue of attacks being deflected or bouncing off way too often.

in my original post:

Copying the bone values onto the other materials will make them behave more like they should, but its not accurate to the level of detail present in the rest of the raw.

So, you can make bite attacks 'work' by doing the copy, but until toady puts his numbers in, or someone else finds or makes up really good ones, it's not going to be terribly accurate.

As to deflection, I don't really see what you're talking about.  In the testing I've done, things seem to work just fine.  If you have small, weak, creatures doing the biting, naturally many of the attacks will get deflected by clothes.  They should.  The creatures are small and weak, clothes _should_ protect you from a great deal of their attacks.  On the other hand, if you use grizzly bears, you won't see many, if any, deflections.

[Koji]

One of the major advantages of this change is that dogs are no longer the only war animal. I think with this mod in, a dog is right about where it should be--they can take out kobolds, scare off baby snatchers, and can be used as an alarm system. If you want something that can take out big game or be a big help in wartime, capture and train some elephants. Once you fix teeth, elephant tusks are pretty brutal.

[IronyOwl]

Interesting. Hadn't gotten enough wild animal encounters to notice this, but it's good to know about.

[Deon]

You should also make elephants to actually USE the tusks. In vanilla they never do it unless they lose all 4 legs which means never.

[derigo]

One of the major advantages of this change is that dogs are no longer the only war animal. I think with this mod in, a dog is right about where it should be--they can take out kobolds, scare off baby snatchers, and can be used as an alarm system. If you want something that can take out big game or be a big help in wartime, capture and train some elephants. Once you fix teeth, elephant tusks are pretty brutal.

Yes this has been my experience as well.  What's more, training an animal for war in 40d doubles its strength. If that's still the case, it should make even war dogs pretty effective.  I was playing an orc fortress (homebrew orcs), and I got sieged by elves.  They brought _50_ war grizzly bear mounts with spear/swordsmen riders backed up by battalions of bow-elves.  Ripped me to shreds.

You should also make elephants to actually USE the tusks. In vanilla they never do it unless they lose all 4 legs which means never.

That's easy enough to do, Deon.  Why don't you do it in genesis?  Just flip the ATTACK_PRIORITY like so:

Code: [Select]

[ATTACK:GORE:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:TUSK]
[ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
[ATTACK_VERB:gore:gores]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:KICK:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:FOOT_FRONT]
[ATTACK_SKILL:STANCE_STRIKE]
[ATTACK_VERB:kick:kicks]
[ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
[ATTACK_PRIORITY:SECOND]
[ATTACK_FLAG_WITH]


[Deon]

What made you think that I haven't done it in Genesis?

[derigo]

idk, I didn't look at your code.  You didn't give me an impression either way.