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Author Topic: Graphics and Tilesets.  (Read 7331 times)

Zemat

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Graphics and Tilesets.
« on: October 28, 2007, 10:50:00 am »

Yeah, I know it's already on the cores to add some better graphics to DF but I want to suggest a way to do it which would make the game more moddable than usual.

I suppose that Toady probably has a data structure which represents the fortress or the environment and he reads it in order to translate everything to graphics. The current problem with the tilesets is that Toady uses the same code to represent several distinct objects. This makes me think that when he reads the data structure what he gets is the ASCII characters directly, which he turns then into tiles to display. So in a read the engine might get a dwarf character and in other read he gets a character which represents his/her status.

My suggestion is to scrap that and instead let the structure be readable more openly. By this I mean that if I read what's inside a cell. Instead of just getting an ASCII, I should get several variables like for example an integer code representing the specific object and others that could represent modifiers. That way, for example, instead of receiving a dwarf character sometimes and other characters to represent special statuses. I could receive the integer code representing the dwarf alongside other codes representing the different statuses (like injured and the like) all on the same scan. In the case of several dwarf/objects piled up in the same cell, the information could be conveyed in a single read as a list.

The idea is that the graphics engine, which should be separated code-wise from the rest of the code, should read this data and turn it into graphics. But, more importantly, this graphics engine should be easy to replace by other custom engines made by modders so that they could device by themselves new ways to represents the game data visually instead of just replacing the tileset. This way some modders could device an isometric tile view (which could display several z-levels with isotiles on the same view) or even a full 3d engine. They would only need to read the data of several z-levels from the game and turn them into graphics whichever way they want too.

This occurred to me as I watched a mock-up made by one poster on the penny-arcade forums which represented DF in a isometric style. I was going to show it but the image went puff  :(

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Mike Mayday

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2007, 11:16:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Zemat:
<STRONG>
This occurred to me as I watched a mock-up made by one poster on the penny-arcade forums which represented DF in a isometric style. </STRONG>

Yes, hello.   :D

I'm not going to repost that image because I've contacted a professional pixel artist who is interested in creating these graphics, as long as Toady shows interest as well.
This artist ( http://spriteattack.cator.de/  ) has provided me with a mockup that made both my jaw and my pants drop. If I get his permission, I'm going to show it to you.

[ October 28, 2007: Message edited by: Mike Mayday ]

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Mike Mayday

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2007, 04:03:00 pm »

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Zemat

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2007, 04:20:00 pm »

ZOMG...  :eek:

Nice job you two!

That would shut the hell up of all DF's graphics detractors.

I hope Toady reserves a little time between the next releases to update graphics and allow this kind of graphic mods.

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Endiqua

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2007, 04:45:00 pm »

Those are indeed pretty dang cool - but I actually prefer the ones you posted in the other thread, Mike.    :)
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gimli

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2007, 05:20:00 pm »

Nice!   ;)
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Mike Mayday

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2007, 05:38:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Endiqua:
<STRONG>Those are indeed pretty dang cool - but I actually prefer the ones you posted in the other thread, Mike.     :)</STRONG>

Hans is all for animating the stuff. (I don't know how easy would it be to program)
I could certainly provide simple static creature sprites.

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Malenfant

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2007, 06:09:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Zemat:
<STRONG>Yeah, I know it's already on the cores to add some better graphics to DF but I want to suggest a way to do it which would make the game more moddable than usual.*snip*</STRONG>

I made this exact same sudgestion just last week  :)
http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001499

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mizipzor

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2007, 06:51:00 am »

I would like to see the game very moddable. In a perfect world, the games logic would be seperated from the rendering. The rendering would then be compiled into a dll, which can be replaced by other dll's that does the rendering differently.
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dyze

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2007, 07:25:00 am »

that looks just awesome! but as toady mentioned in that other thread, i suppose its a lot of work, and will take some time..
thats why i have a quick dirty proposition to get world graphics!

simply separate what is displayed in the world and general text into 2 different font sets. that way, atleast users can create grayscale graphics, and tinker with the color settings.

like i have done here (for the previous version of df, looks a bit weird in the new one):
http://i22.tinypic.com/j7rxav.gif

[ October 30, 2007: Message edited by: dyze ]

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adron

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2007, 11:16:00 pm »

mike> if Hans' sprites were to go ahead, would they support dismemberment/other gore?
also, how would they represent wrestling? seems like quite a complicated system to depict accurately through sprites, especially considering different creature sizes/shapes.
they look amazing, by the way :0
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Plac1d

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2007, 09:12:00 am »


If only this were the official banner to the DF front page instead of the grisly banner that slumbers there now.
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spu00trb

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2007, 10:03:00 am »

I think that this is the best idea for graphics that I have heard. Toady is clearly most interested in creating code that is capable of producing and simulating a fortress of any possible design in the world of dwarves. I don't want him to slow for even a moment from making exciting new features for me to play around with.

However as the complexity of the program goes up and up, the interface required to play the game becomes more and more complex and although ascii will always work it becomes more and more desirable to try new ways of doing things.

To make a new interface doesnt actually require any more information than we already have, it just requires that the information be presented in a form that other programs can read rather than one that people can read.

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adron

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2007, 06:08:00 pm »

i dig ascii.. but would be excellent to see game mechanics represented by sprites of this quality..
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Tormy

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Re: Graphics and Tilesets.
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2007, 06:17:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mayday:
<STRONG>Tadaaaa!

Here is Hans' work: http://spriteattack.cator.de//df/show/  http://spriteattack.cator.de//df/</STRONG>



wow! Awesome! Graphics like this would be EXCELLENT for Dwarf Fortress. Hats off Hans!
 :)

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