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[Jonathan S. Fox]

This "heated discussion" has simmered over into a flame war that isn't contributing to the thread, the community, or the game. I would like to give the on-topic discussion a chance to survive and thrive, but if the discussion can't stay away from realism and focus on the mod, I will probably end up locking this thread.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Gentlemen, please stop fighting! Bay 12 Games is reputable for not having these kinds of flame wars, and we should try to keep it that way.
Regardless of what correct and incorrect information has been said, we must remember to do what is best for LCS, or in this case, Ronin's upcoming mod of it. The function of guns to regulary blow off entire limbs in a game where Conservatives are trying to create a Orwelian Nightmare is there because it is FUN. We must remember to keep FUN first, in both the traditional and dwarf fortress sense.

But, back onto topic. I think I can expand a bit on my idea for less-then-lethal weapons as such:

The TAZER could do no harm to your target, and knock them unconscious. However, it could also have a small chance of being an instant-kill, even more so when used on the injured or already TAZER'd targets.

The Riot Gun could function by doing no more than heavy brusing, and eventualy causing the pain to become too crippling for the target to fight or run. Tough targets might last untill knocked out by it.

Also: Alright, I give up, there are no not giant images of an RPG-7. Just sayin, it seems like it should be there.

[ThreeToe]

UristMcGunsmith has been muted for 3 days for using bigoted language.  He tried to clean it up while continuing the flame war, which is cute, but doesn't help his case.  Try to stay on topic, and be respectful.

[jasonred79]

Too bad he's been muted. I would have liked an explanation on how to read that diagram on Military Rifle Wound Profiles.

For instance, let's take the M118 LR SMK OTM.

I mean, is that diagram at 10:1 scale? It looks like, at 30cm penetration, it causes a wound almost 20cm in diameter! That would possibly come close to amputating a limb, wouldn't it? Or something. I have no idea. Then again, that would mean the bullet is pretty huge diameter too... hmm...


Also, didn't the attempt the whole exploding a fuel tank with bullet's on mythbusters? IIRC, it didn't work at all. Until they used incendiery rounds, at which point, it DID work.

[Kay12]

In any case, I think if LCS has to choose with the REALism and Hollywood realism, Hollywood is the place to go. I mean, we already have the Matrix (solo martial arts victories against bombers!) and such... maybe other hugely exaggerated tonque-in-cheek stuff (like exploding cars and such) could find their home in LCS.

[Tilla]

The real world isn't as entertaining. Where would we get Grimith's Liberals with no tongue and a missing leg who still manages to seduce men and women otherwise?

[Kay12]

Okay, I gues no-tonque-in-cheek realism is also good!

[Innominate]

Too bad he's been muted. I would have liked an explanation on how to read that diagram on Military Rifle Wound Profiles.

For instance, let's take the M118 LR SMK OTM.

I mean, is that diagram at 10:1 scale? It looks like, at 30cm penetration, it causes a wound almost 20cm in diameter! That would possibly come close to amputating a limb, wouldn't it? Or something. I have no idea. Then again, that would mean the bullet is pretty huge diameter too... hmm...

I can't really explain why the profiles get so large in the middle, but it is the typical effect of bullet wounds. It couldn't amputate a limb because the radius of the damage is not uniform. So until 30cm in (which is much wider than most legs), the radius is not large enough to sever, so the front of the limb would be mostly intact. This is partly why people readily die of gunshot wounds: you see a tiny hole in the front, but their insides have a huge, hidden area of damage.

[jasonred79]

Well, I know that certain rounds are designed to "tumble" after penetration, which will cause rather huge amounts of tissue damage and stuff...

[Megaman]

Personally, I would love for guns to work like they do in Holywood. Sure its unrealistic. Sure it wont happen in real life. But it just makes you feel better when seeing your awesome liberal mow down enemies like rambo.

[Diablous]

Personally, I would love for guns to work like they do in Holywood. Sure its unrealistic. Sure it wont happen in real life. But it just makes you feel better when seeing your awesome liberal mow down enemies like rambo.

Rule of Cool>Realism

[Kay12]

Personally, I would love for guns to work like they do in Holywood. Sure its unrealistic. Sure it wont happen in real life. But it just makes you feel better when seeing your awesome liberal mow down enemies like rambo.

Rule of Cool>Realism

This is what I mean! Sure, we shouldn't get too far-fetched (realism until closer look is fine), but... I like the current ultra-heavy AK47... hehehe.

[Servant Corps]

In any case, I think if LCS has to choose with the REALism and Hollywood realism, Hollywood is the place to go. I mean, we already have the Matrix (solo martial arts victories against bombers!) and such... maybe other hugely exaggerated tonque-in-cheek stuff (like exploding cars and such) could find their home in LCS.

I actually prefer the REALism instead. That's because I view the game as a simulator of an insurgency, and like my simulations to be realistic. Of course, I'm a lone voice. 

[Kay12]

In any case, I think if LCS has to choose with the REALism and Hollywood realism, Hollywood is the place to go. I mean, we already have the Matrix (solo martial arts victories against bombers!) and such... maybe other hugely exaggerated tonque-in-cheek stuff (like exploding cars and such) could find their home in LCS.

I actually prefer the REALism instead. That's because I view the game as a simulator of an insurgency, and like my simulations to be realistic. Of course, I'm a lone voice. 

Well I agree that a realistic insurgency simulator would be nice, but we have to face it that politics are hard to simulate accurately. Masses are hard to predict. And in real life I can't imagine the popular opinion supporting terrorists that kill police, celebrities and such almost every day.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

LCS is very consciously Hollywoodized. You used to even be able to blow heads off with a .22 revolver or slice their body in two with a shank. Though it puts on airs of being realistic, many things in the game actually make very little sense if you take a moment to reflect on them.