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Author Topic: Water / magma submarine  (Read 76449 times)

Oglokoog

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Water / magma submarine
« on: May 02, 2010, 06:56:04 pm »

IN CASE ANYONE SEES THIS THREAD NOW: No, it is not possible.

A quick search turned up some topics about this, but none very recent, so I decided to start a new one.

Well, you read it in the topic name: submarines. The basic idea is quite simple (well...): create a submarine over the surface of an ocean or a magma vent, move lots of booze and food in there and then... channel out the tile holding it to solid ground.
There are, however - as always - problems. The first problem is that constructions deconstruct upon falling. This can be counteracted by making the submarine out of cast obsidian, which counts as a natural wall (and, as an added bonus, can be farmed on, thus potentially making the submarine truly self-sufficient). Natural walls don't deconstruct when they fall. This still doesn't seem to do the trick, though. I have so far done very little testing on the subject, but it seems that when a chunk of falling stone hits the ground, any walls that are supported only from the side move down until they hit a floor, squashing any and all dwarves underneath them in the process. This picture might explain the problem better:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have since been wondering about ways to avoid this problem. If you could somehow keep even ONE dwarf inside a large falling lump of stone alive, it would be possible to build an entire fortress on the bottom of the lava sea, which would be... well, awesome.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 06:36:36 pm by Oglokoog »
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

bmaczero

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 07:15:53 pm »

I've wanted to do this, too.  In fact I'm building a giant steel submarine on my current fort.

I don't think there's a way to do it until we get improved cave-ins, though...I guess it will be confined to the drydock forever.
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deoxys413

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 08:17:02 pm »

So a cave in down the magma tube with just rest on the magma sea floor and not be destroyed by the semi-molten rock?
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WATER is the universal solvent.
MAGMA is the universal solution.

Vattic

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 08:20:02 pm »

Not really what your looking for but you can get a dwarf to the bottom safely if he is inside a cage, dump the cage into the ocean, unfortunately this leads nowhere.
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Jurph

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 08:37:49 pm »

You need to think vertically.  Consider crafting an exploration vessel called the Pillar of Autumn, which has mega-tall walls, a quadruple-thick floor, but no ceiling.  The dwarves and any supplies you wish to send in with them get loaded onto what will eventually be the outer ceiling.

Drop the structure and marvel as the walls remain in place, 2 z-levels taller than the magma.  The dwarves stare upwards in awe at the 6-z-level caisson you've built them... and then tunnel into the 4-layer-thick floor, creating room for the supplies.  The dwarves migrate back and forth happily, moving booze into their new dining hall, beds into their barracks, and a breeding pair of cows into the abbatoir.  One dwarf hollers up when the farm plots are ready, and the mothership opens a storm drain.  Water goes everywhere, but the important thing is that it gets the farm plot muddied.  Seeds are planted.  The water on top of the vessel eventually evaporates out.  All is in readiness, so the explorers retreat belowdecks to draw lots.

One lone dwarf returns to the upper deck. He deconstructs the stairs he came from, builds a bauxite floor over the top hatch, and takes a copper pick over to one wall.

Tink.  Tink.  Tink...
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Duane

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 08:45:28 pm »

You need to think vertically.  Consider crafting an exploration vessel called the Pillar of Autumn, which has mega-tall walls, a quadruple-thick floor, but no ceiling.  The dwarves and any supplies you wish to send in with them get loaded onto what will eventually be the outer ceiling.

Drop the structure and marvel as the walls remain in place, 2 z-levels taller than the magma.  The dwarves stare upwards in awe at the 6-z-level caisson you've built them... and then tunnel into the 4-layer-thick floor, creating room for the supplies.  The dwarves migrate back and forth happily, moving booze into their new dining hall, beds into their barracks, and a breeding pair of cows into the abbatoir.  One dwarf hollers up when the farm plots are ready, and the mothership opens a storm drain.  Water goes everywhere, but the important thing is that it gets the farm plot muddied.  Seeds are planted.  The water on top of the vessel eventually evaporates out.  All is in readiness, so the explorers retreat belowdecks to draw lots.

One lone dwarf returns to the upper deck. He deconstructs the stairs he came from, builds a bauxite floor over the top hatch, and takes a copper pick over to one wall.

Tink.  Tink.  Tink...
You just re-created "The Core" in Dwarf Fortress. I think Einstein, Freud, and Newton just simultaneously rolled over.
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Oglokoog

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 09:10:48 pm »

I have now MADE PROGRESS. Experiment number 5 proved to be a major success - I dropped a 5x5x5 cube with a 3x3x3 hole in it with the lowest level filled with water with a dwarf swimming in it. He survived the fall completely unharmed. This proves beyond doubt that dwarves can survive in falling objects. I will now do more testing, but so far it seems that this is actually doable. At the end of it all, I hope to have a fully functional mini-fortress on the very bottom of the magma sea.
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

Shrike

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 09:21:50 pm »

...

...
...
This is an incredible discovery!

Hm. There is a way to deal with the deconstruction issue. Put the dwarf inside, then build a door/wall slightly back from the edge of the obsidian. Pump magma into the space, and, from at least 2 z-levels above, designate a pit to dump water onto that spot. This will create an obsidian seal that will ensure no magma enters the chamber.


I am very interested in this, as it does mean we could build viable colonies under the magma sea. 

In fact, I think it's now time to start thinking on what the minimum amount of space a single dwarf requires to have all his or her needs taken care of.

The water is an excellent start! It means that there is already a way to farm.
However, particularly with the current build (0.31), the heat of boiling water on the dwarf could kill them. As such, you would need to drop a rather large block of obsidian, hollowed out so that the dwarf(s) would be in the middle of it, and would not be killed by boiling.


(What would also be hilarious is making one of these obsidian submarines so that the entire process could be executed from inside, sealing the submarine, filling the control center with water, which triggers a pressure plate to release the support holding the structure up. One adventurer, sealed forever at the bottom of the magma sea.)

« Last Edit: May 02, 2010, 09:33:32 pm by Shrike »
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Oglokoog

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 04:08:35 am »

I come bearing terrible news, my friends. I have carved out (as in dug around) a stone pillar, 5x5 and fiftysomething Z-levels high, suspended by a single floor tile in midair just above the surface of the great magma sea. This time, there was no dwarf inside it as it fell for two reasons - I had no access to water and I have already tested that the fall can be survived). My hypothesis was that it, being a natural wall, wouldn't melt and so would just sink several Z-levels until it reached the semi-molten rock (which I knew was there) and stay there. In case of failure, I expected that it would melt level by level until it disappears into the magma. What happened, though, completely defied my expectations. A miner channeled out the one tile holding the entire thing in place. The pillar fell the one z-level. It touched the magma and... the bottom half of it evaporated. E-VAPORATED. The upper half (not exactly probably, I don't really know) turned into 7/7 squares of magma, which then proceeded to fall down the now empty shaft and increase the level of magma.
Now, while this obviously makes any further attempts at making a magmasub futile, it creates a lot of new options, because it is essentially a very simple, if non-renewable, way to move magma fast to upper levels of your fortress, eliminating the need to use pumps.
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

Toady Two

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 05:43:32 am »

What if the stone you used was magma safe? Look for a site with bauxite and try again :D .

Also I still see potential in making a dropship containing legendary warriors and dropping it on a goblin siege or the pits just for awesomeness.

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Max White

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 07:59:31 am »

Dwarf fortress ODST?
HELL YEA!

Oglokoog

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 07:59:42 am »

What if the stone you used was magma safe? Look for a site with bauxite and try again :D .

Also I still see potential in making a dropship containing legendary warriors and dropping it on a goblin siege or the pits just for awesomeness.

According to the article on the wiki (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Magma-safe), there is a lot of magma-safe materials now. I don't know about some of them, but I am COMPLETELY sure that a major part of the pillar was made of gabbro (which is magma-safe as stated in the article). Even if it wasn't, though, it probably shouldn't have completely and immediately evaporated or turned into a glob of magma. I think this is even bugreport-worthy.
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So we got monsters above, monsters below, dwarves in the middle and a party in the dining hall. Sounds good to me.
If all else fails, remember one thing:  kittens are delicious, nutritious little goblin-baiters, cavern explorers, and ambush-finders.

Firehound

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 09:06:32 am »

For the ODST Make sure the walls are above a one tile deep floor so that when he lands he isn't stuck in four walls until a miner mines out one....

Though now I want to see dwarven tetris.
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Shrike

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 11:26:37 am »

That is unfortunate. What about a double-hulled structure, or triple-hulled, with water filling the inner hull? If obsidian is created in that magma, would that also melt away?
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Quatch

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Re: Water / magma submarine
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 02:00:16 pm »

I have high hopes for you in Goldanguishes now.

Also, in the 5x5x5 case with 3x3x3 (1z of water), what was the end configuration, and was the dwarf stunned?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 02:02:30 pm by Quatch »
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>>KillerClowns: It's faster to write "!!science!!" than any of the synonyms: "mad science", "dwarven science", or "crimes against the laws of god and man".
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