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Author Topic: Heating without smoke.  (Read 3594 times)

WeekendGamer

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Heating without smoke.
« on: May 16, 2010, 08:35:58 pm »

Hey,
Heating has been discussed a bit in the past. I think heating would be neat for glacier fortresses and would make the game feel more immersive. A big caveat in the implementation seems to be the development of smoke and the needed ventilation to make indoor fires kinda realistic. There is a simple approach to heating without all that. Here is what survivalists do to heat wooden huts: They make an outdoor fire and heat big fucking rocks. Then they carry them inside and use them as a heat source. No smoke, no fire, no ventilation needed. When the rocks get cold, they switch em out for fresh ones. Rocks are already in the game, IDK about the state of fires but hauling is a dwarven tradition, so this idea feels strangely at home here. Needs an outdoor fire, but like refuse piles, you don't have to give a damn about implementing smoke outside. Add a labor to haul these rocks, designate a fire outside and a pedestal inside for the rock to be dropped on... BAM, indoor heating. Just a simple approach to heating, thanks for your time.
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DarthCloakedDwarf

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2010, 09:04:04 pm »

You seem to be forgetting about magma.
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Yes. Clearly a bug that ought to be fixed in the future, but exploit it in the meantime.

Aescula: *snerk*  Just thought of a picture I saw a long tome ago...
Darth Guy: A long, long tome ago, in a library far, far away?

WeekendGamer

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2010, 06:02:35 am »

That's a bit deep down there, don't you think?
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PiCroft

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2010, 08:47:11 am »

Something I would be wary of is the potential for FPS drops on slower machines if a lot of smoke is being produced, for example, by a number of furnaces operating. Maybe its just my machine but I noticed a bit of slowdown when I was on ocean squares and waves were rolling in, creating mist.

I do quite like the idea of smokestacks and vent holes though.
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DarthCloakedDwarf

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2010, 12:00:47 pm »

That's a bit deep down there, don't you think?
You really aren't thinking like a dwarf.

If you think it is down too far, you move it up until it reaches an acceptable elevation.
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Yes. Clearly a bug that ought to be fixed in the future, but exploit it in the meantime.

Aescula: *snerk*  Just thought of a picture I saw a long tome ago...
Darth Guy: A long, long tome ago, in a library far, far away?

WeekendGamer

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 04:12:23 pm »

That's a bit deep down there, don't you think?
You really aren't thinking like a dwarf.

If you think it is down too far, you move it up until it reaches an acceptable elevation.

I applaud the dwarven bravado and for sure, this would be the high-end solution.
But build a megaconstruction once and have some fun, build it a dozen times as mandatory part of the design of the game and you'll find yourself bored or frustrated. Thus the simple, bare-bones approach to not freezing to death for the early game stages.

Btw, giant chimney constructions would be enormously cool, i agree, but the engine (and some new players) might not be able to handle it due to the smoke issue. The ventilation system would require some tricky planning, i assume. Thus the suggestion of a solution that could employ a simpler heating model.
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fluffyblacksword

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 05:10:18 pm »

But build a megaconstruction once and have some fun, build it a dozen times as mandatory part of the design of the game and you'll find yourself bored or frustrated. Thus the simple, bare-bones approach to not freezing to death for the early game stages.
Excavating magmapumpstacks is more fun than harvesting wood or finding and mining out coal :)
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WeekendGamer

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 08:14:51 pm »

But build a megaconstruction once and have some fun, build it a dozen times as mandatory part of the design of the game and you'll find yourself bored or frustrated. Thus the simple, bare-bones approach to not freezing to death for the early game stages.
Excavating magmapumpstacks is more fun than harvesting wood or finding and mining out coal :)

Designating 100 z-levels of pumps? Idk man. Doesn't sound thrilling. But that can be said about pretty much any megaconstruction.
But you should have fuel lying around anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem. You can drop the fuel consumption of these fires to almost nothing, I don't care. I'm just suggesting this additional layer of realism, like many before me. It's not supposed to eat away your wood like crazy. 

Speaking of fuel: Would someone consider embarking on a location without trees?
The thing is this: My suggestion should logically be applied to cold climates and glacier mountain ranges. These usually do not have trees, so there is nothing to burn.

This could lead to 2 conclusions:
1. The suggestion sucks, because if there is no renewable heat source, fortresses in cold, mountainous maps will become unsustainable in the long run. (Trading firewood maybe? Sounds pretty realistic actually.)
2. But thats the gist of it! The idea of embarking in a frosty, glacier map without any burnable material isn't sound in the first place, loosely based on real world experience.

Now since I'm suggesting this, I'm obviously in the second category, but i can understand either reasoning. I don't want to take anything away from regular players who have come to love their frosty, treeless maps, but it seems to me that heating is congruent with the current layer of realism in the game and should be implemented.
It's the one thing currently missing from the basic needs of survival.

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numerobis

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Re: Heating without smoke.
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 09:34:39 pm »

You don't have to dig all the way down to magma to get warmer.  Let's say we have semi-molten rock, 650C, at depth about 150 tiles normally.  Then the gradient is about 4C per tile normally assuming the surface is somewhat like Earth temperatures.  So dig just 5-10 tiles down and your dwarves will be balmy.

Try not to think too hard what this means about the ponds at depth 60.
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