Dwarf Fortress > DF Suggestions

Adventurer mode: Facing and backstabbing

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Align:
Creatures should always face in some direction. Presumably determined by the direction you last moved, or in the direction of the spot you last loo[k]ed at (can't think of an elegant way of letting a stationary creature change facing - cancelling a careful move in a direction perhaps?).Creatures should also be far more likely to spot a sneaking creature if they are facing towards it. Make higher levels of Ambusher good for more than sneaking really fast.And finally, the cream of the chocolate: if you sneak up on a creature from behind (which should not result in almost always being spotted) and attack it, you get a huge advantage. Either just a carefully aimed-at-vitals attack with piercing weapons, or a particularly powerful blow to a weak spot (the head or neck, for example), or if not wielding any weapon... uh, I guess you should be able to snap the neck of the creature, if it has one.

Cosmonot:
I don't like it. It would be extremely irritating to get backstabbed because I'm not religiously monitoring which way my character is facing outside of combat. This suggestion would actually make Ambusher less useful, because stealth would be more dependent on factors other than the sneaking individual's skill.There's no reason a "backstab"-like attack couldn't be implemented simply by checking whether the target is aware of the attacker or not.A better way of implementing an awareness mechanic would be to let characters get a bonus towards spotting stealthy individuals by reducing their speed. This would let players effectively make the same choice between speed and safety that they would under a facing system, only without the tedium of searching the entire area around their character maunally. It would also be useful for AI characters; normally, they would move at normal speed, but if they get suspicious for some reason, they would drop into the alert mode. Certain professions, such as guards, might use a perception skill that gives them a limited bonus to their awareness even when they're not alert.It would be nice if there was a skill related to delivering stealth attacks, too, that increases whatever bonus you'd get from doing so. It shouldn't be an assured kill though, especially if the attacker has the wrong weapon for the job.

Sowelu:
Not realistic.  Sure in MMOs, it makes sense for backstab to work that way, maybe...but in DF it's very difficult to get right behind a monster who's moving.  Critters don't walk slower outside of combat, do they?  That makes it near impossible for a sneaking player to get too close.  In a realistic situation I would expect that you'd want to wait in a shadowy corner until the critter walks by...but you'd likely be attacking from the side instead of the rear that way.  Abstraction helps this out a lot.You DO get flanking bonuses, at least.  (It keeps track of a per-round facing based on who you just attacked, but doesn't have an impact when you're not currently fighting.)

Lazer Bomb:
If this suggestion happens, each creature would need 4x the graphics. Or 8x if they can face diagonals also.

Align:
quote:Originally posted by Cosmonot:
<STRONG>I don't like it. It would be extremely irritating to get backstabbed because I'm not religiously monitoring which way my character is facing outside of combat. This suggestion would actually make Ambusher less useful, because stealth would be more dependent on factors other than the sneaking individual's skill.</STRONG>The player would practically never have any trouble with it unless you're lying on the ground or otherwise slowed down a great deal, since you can just outrun any enemy. And well, it doesn't so much make Ambusher less useful as make sneaking less abusable - currently it's pretty much a cloaking device.   quote:<STRONG>There's no reason a "backstab"-like attack couldn't be implemented simply by checking whether the target is aware of the attacker or not.</STRONG>That works too. Just that currently, 99 times out of 100 you're spotted just as you get in range.<STRONG>   quote:A better way of implementing an awareness mechanic would be to let characters get a bonus towards spotting stealthy individuals by reducing their speed.</STRONG>I suppose. Most monsters are just standing around in the caves though - does that count as being alert, or lazy?<STRONG>   quote:It would be nice if there was a skill related to delivering stealth attacks, too, that increases whatever bonus you'd get from doing so. It shouldn't be an assured kill though, especially if the attacker has the wrong weapon for the job.</STRONG>That sounds more than a little strange. If you're skilled with a weapon you already know where to aim to deliver a fatal blow. Should just depend on the weapon-skill.  quote:Originally posted by Sowelu:
<STRONG>Not realistic.  Sure in MMOs, it makes sense for backstab to work that way, maybe...but in DF it's very difficult to get right behind a monster who's moving.  Critters don't walk slower outside of combat, do they?  That makes it near impossible for a sneaking player to get too close.</STRONG>Most creatures stand stock still until they spot you, even flighty ones like deer.
 quote:<STRONG>You DO get flanking bonuses, at least.  (It keeps track of a per-round facing based on who you just attacked, but doesn't have an impact when you're not currently fighting.)</STRONG>I had noticed that I would sometimes hack The troglodyte in the back! after one charged past me, but I didn't know about this. It's pretty rare to enter a three-part battle.  quote:Originally posted by Lazer Bomb:
<STRONG>If this suggestion happens, each creature would need 4x the graphics. Or 8x if they can face diagonals also.</STRONG>Naw. You could loo[k] at them to see which direction they're facing.
But, I prefer Cosmonots idea of just making it depend on the creatures alertness anyway, since it's simpler and is much less likely to have a drastic effect on other parts of the game.[ April 08, 2008: Message edited by: Align ]

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