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[Askot Bokbondeler]

you screwed up somewhere in your post. (EDIT: to Jiri Petru)

EDIT: And yeah, I don't mind having a command line as a completely optional thing. I just felt someone was really proposing it over a "proper interface".

nah, people were just orgasming on how awesome it could be.

 i think that dwarf fortres main interface issues are bugs and lack of organization, i don't think it needs fancy menus and glitter, just a bit of coherence, wich toady is already working on as the shift from space to esc demonstrates. using mouse for designations is usefull, but using the keyboard for everything else is much more pratical. i was the kind of person that never used hotkeys in rts's, and i still am, mainly because you NEED to use the mouse in those games, and it's too much of a hassle to take my hand off the mouse to press the hotkeys. if DF had better mouse support, i'd probably be using it because of the habit i picked up from other games, but i'd be using an inferior and clumsier interface, and having more trouble with it than what i have now, so i am against giving too much power to the mouse: it may increase the learning curve a bit, but that's because many people have bad habbits imposed by other games, and DF shouldn't sacrifice it's own quality for that.

[MrWiggles]

I'm not for mouse support as Dwarf Fortress is of rogue like vain, and that does mean limited to no mouse support. A keyboard interface could quite function for dwarf fortress as it is now.

I also dont see mouse support being more functional over keyboard interface without some heavy duty contextual commands, which will probably on on top of revamp menus anyhow.

I also dont see player penetration as that much of an argument for any aspect. Dwarf Fortress is a very niche game. Yea, making the game more penetrable will increase playership but I find it highly doubt that it be significant gain.

[DalGren]

I was raised in the command line so the idea makes sense...if optional and stuff (AKA press ??? key to pop out input console).
What I'd enjoy, however, is expanding filtering as seen in the manager orders screen (where you can input "wo br" to reach "wooden barrel"). It has uses in almost every selection screen with multiple choices, like material assignment or wrestling.
Another option is replacing the +/-/↑/↓ confusion by using tab to jump between categories (and shift+tab to go back). This might not be optional but it is familiar. Anyone who used a GUI app (most stuff without custom widgets in Windows, GTK/QT/etc in Linux, and I am fairly sure that holds true in Mac systems as well) can adapt to that scheme.

I can see what the problem is though. The menus aren't integrated because they come from different stages of development. Some features probably where never given thought in the first place, and hence we get strange, placeholder menus with barely any connection to each other.
Each menu was coded separately and doesn't seem to have a common widget/input set. Their purpose is controlling or displaying one specific set of in-game data...which is great when debugging, but you need to cook the data, because it doesn't taste that well raw :P

So this makes rewriting the UI a nightmare at this point. It'll surely be a lot of quick code with repeated functionality and such, requiring to turn repeated code into functions, make widgets standard...then reform everything (IN A WAY THAT PLEASES MOST PLAYERS... imagine we get an awesome GUI but no quick keyboard input, or with different key combinations to reach an action...people will go INSANE) and polish it. It's no easy situation for Toady and I can see why he neglects that grunt work in favor of doing more delicious (and satisfying for him) new features.
Consider that when developing a game by oneself, there's only ONE big motivator...motivation! And motivation is usually linked to shiny new features, while bugfixing is a boring, tedious task. It's like cleaning up after partying hard.

By the way, I agree with Troodon. We have the "right" (notice quotes) to clone the game in our own view if we wish and we can. As I said ?? post ago, people shouldn't think creating the world is impossible (in gaming dev terms), it just requires motivation and time, and wanting to re-envision something is a good motivation, and Toady did the heavy work already in terms of design.
After all it's not such an unique or evil (I know what some of you are thinking so hold your guns for a while) thing to do. Many of your favorite games are possibly the author's twist on its favorite game. It's like because of Doom (and its popularity) we got Rise of The Triad, Duke Nukem, and eventually Modern Warfare/Bioshock/ETC. Inspiration != plagiarizing.

[Onion Knight]

Hi!

I too dream of the day where the interface becomes so convoluted and counter-intuitive that I am the only one left willing to play dwarf fortress because if some neanderthal can't be bothered to remember (i)ssue order > (f)rom > no(b)le > t(o) > commo(n)er > di(g) > (s)ewer > (p)urpose > fi(l)th management > pr(i)ority > (u)rgent then, well, they just don't deserve to play

Onion Knight

[MrWiggles]

Hi!

I too dream of the day where the interface becomes so convoluted and counter-intuitive that I am the only one left willing to play dwarf fortress because if some neanderthal can't be bothered to remember (i)ssue order > (f)rom > no(b)le > t(o) > commo(n)er > di(g) > (s)ewer > (p)urpose > fi(l)th management > pr(i)ority > (u)rgent then, well, they just don't deserve to play

Onion Knight

Awesome, a post of no substance.

Like this one.

[Toady One]

Wait... stop that!

This thread does contain quite a bit of bashing earlier on, so I don't think it's a good home for a new long-term interface discussion up on the front page.  You can feel free to cross-post into a new thread here if you like.  I've also been receiving a bit of email regarding other projects etc.  I'd just as soon let this thread drift off for that reason as well -- I'm not starting a crackdown or anything, and this thread seems to be giving off that impression to newly arriving readers.