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[grufti]

Since I'm not able to create a new topic in the Bug area, I'm opening up this topic here:

Since Toady One is starting on the military equipment bugs and they seem hard to reproduce, we should help him testing out the bug in various encounters. It is also very difficult to test various settings, because setting up and testing around stuff with the military is rather time consuming (and annoying as hell).

from the bugtracker:

I'm getting started on these now. Any saves people have for whatever issue would be useful. I didn't find any looking through many of the child issues. Sometimes it's difficult to reproduce things -- I'm sure I can get some problems to happen easily, but it'll be slow going. Thanks for your help!

edit: I should link dffd.wimbli.com when I mention saves. It is a good place to put them.

I could not get the OP's problem to reproduce, trying the steps listed, in 3 tries. Saves will definitely be useful. The earlier in the process the better, provided the problem still reproduces, since the equipment problems tend to snowball.

At first we'll need a testing environment, I would provide my own actual save, but it seems as if the arsenal dwarf would be triggered rather late in this fort. (I already have 40 citizens and still no arsenal dwarf available)
Requirements for the testing environment:
- it should be as early as possible after the embark
- at least 30 citizens
- arsenal dwarf is assignable
- fort is self running (no vital stuff has yet to be built)
- metal industry running - for testing around with weapons and armor
- leather industry running (e.g. some leather bins from a caravan and a build leatherworker's workshop) - for testing around with backpacks and waterskins
- NO weapon/armor/ammo stocks designated (or used) yet - some have said the arsenal dwarf screws things if one is designated

if anyone has such a savegame it would be great if you would provide it. (upload it at dffd.wimbli.org and post the link)
For good and reproducable test results it is very important everyone has the same starting requirements!

stuff to be tested:
all squads are being assigned standard metal uniform
1 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
1.1 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain) -? (works from my experience)
1.2 - adding 5 more members - ?
1.3 - assigning another captain, creating another squad with 5 members (from captain) - ?
1.4 - adding 5 more members to second squad - ?
1.5 - further testing - ?

2 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain 1, assign captain 2
2.1 - create squad 1 from captain with 5 members - ?
2.2 - add 5 more members to squad 1 - ?
2.3 - create squad 2 from captain with 5 members - ?
2.4 - add 5 more members to squad 2 - ?
2.5 - further testing - ?

3 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain 1, assign captain 2
3.1 - create squad 1 from captain with 5 members - ?
3.2 - create squad 2 from captain with 5 members - ?
3.3 - add 5 more members to squad 1 - ?
3.4 - add 5 more members to squad 2 - ?
2.5 - further testing - ?

4 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain 1, assign captain 2
4.1 - unassign captain 1, unassign captain 2, assign captain 2 to the slot of captain 1 and captain 1 to the place of captain 2
4.2 - create squad 1 from captain with 5 members - ?
4.3 - add 5 more members to squad 1 - ?
4.4 - create squad 2 from captain with 5 members - ?
4.5 - add 5 more members to squad 2 - ?
4.6 - further testing - ?

5 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
------the following 2 points are already being tested in test case 1------
5.1 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain)
5.2 - adding 5 more members
------
5.3 - remove all members from the squad
5.4 - disband the squad
5.5 - make all military nobles vacant
5.6 - assigne the same arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain as in 5
5.7 - create squad with with the same 5 members as in 5.1 (from captain) - ?
5.8 - adding the same 5 more members as in 5.2 - ?
5.9 - further testing - ?

6 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
------the following 2 points are already being tested in test case 1------
6.1 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain)
6.2 - adding 5 more members
------
6.3 - remove all members from the squad
6.4 - disband the squad
6.5 - make all military nobles vacant
6.6 - assigne arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain they must be different as in 5
6.7 - create squad with with the same 5 members as in 5.1 (from captain) - ?
6.8 - adding the same 5 more members as in 5.2 - ?
6.9 - further testing - ?

7 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
7.1 - designate an armor stockpile
7.2 - designate a weapon stockpile
7.3 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain) - ?
7.4 - adding 5 more members - ?
7.5 - further testing - ?

8 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
8.1 - assign barracks for sleep
8.2 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain) - ?
8.3 - adding 5 more members - ?
8.4.1 - set dwarfes to defend a burrow and sleep in barracks on will - ?
8.4.2 - set dwarfes to defend a burrow and sleep in barracks on need - ?
8.5 - further testing - ?

9 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
9.1 - assign barracks for train
9.2 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain) - ?
9.3 - adding 5 more members - ?
9.4 - set dwarfes to train in barracks - ?
9.5 - further testing - ?

10 - assigning arsenal dwarf, assigning military commander, assigning captain
10.1 - assign barracks for sleep and train
10.2 - creating squad with 5 members (from captain) - ?
10.3 - adding 5 more members - ?
10.5.1 - set dwarfes to train and sleep in barracks on will - ?
10.5.2 - set dwarfes to train and sleep in barracks on need - ?
10.6 - further testing - ?

there for sure are more test cases, but I don't know yet which to mention

documentation: everyone who takes part in this test has to document his steps done in the test. This is crucial for recreating the test.
This documentation should look like:

1st limestone - assigned UristMcMoron as arsenal dwarf, assigned Urist McHero as militia commander, assigned Urist McMc as milita captain
3rd limestone - created squad "The Firefists" with Uris McMc as leader and Urist McSoldier1, Urist McSoldier2, Urist McSoldier3, Urist McSoldier4
15th limestone - Urist McSoldier1 now uses a "Tower-Cap Baby Toy Axe"
18th limestone - I've produced a "*Steel War Axe*", Urist Mc Soldier 1 now uses a "*Steel War Axe*" and Urist McSoldier2 now uses a "Tower-Cap Baby Toy Axe"
Test completed - everything seems to work as intended

Well the final tests should have a more complete set of tests. (also produce armor, produce armor/weapons of different materials/quality)

Anyone who wants to help is welcome. But the first step is as said above, to find a suitable savegame to start with.

If anyone has yet done some testing with equiment - now is the time to gather all confirmed information.

[K4el]

Doing this at work all day isn't enough for you? You've got to do it on your free time too? Sadist!

Where do you work? =P

You MIGHT convince me to help run a few packs but only because i love this game. ><

[grufti]

Doing this at work all day isn't enough for you? You've got to do it on your free time too? Sadist!

Where do you work? =P

You MIGHT convince me to help run a few packs but only because i love this game. ><

I'm doing this for the sake of DF and my military running smoothely

Informatics student ^^

For which reason if not for love

[K4el]

My suggestion is to find some one who knows the world gen inside and out. Gen a pocket world with no hostile civs and find an ideal site. IE magma, water, flux, etc, etc.

Start a new fort. Get it to a position of self sustainability. Dump all the superfluous inventory and wall it off or lock the door so the fort becomes a controlled environment in terms of gear. Then save and back up the fort save befor begining testing so you have an easy reset from a known start point.

It's probably best to make use of doors and locks to isolate certain areas of the fort. For instance... say path finding is playing a role in equipment selection bugs. We'd want 2 arsenal dwarf offices. One near a weaponry stock pile and one far. The same for barracks or other locations a dwarf maybe in while deciding hey i need to go pick up my new sword.

DF is a rediculously complex system. Designing a test bed is a big task all in it self, much less coming up with a test strategy.

[grufti]

My suggestion is to find some one who knows the world gen inside and out. Gen a pocket world with no hostile civs and find an ideal site. IE magma, water, flux, etc, etc.

Start a new fort. Get it to a position of self sustainability. Dump all the superfluous inventory and wall it off or lock the door so the fort becomes a controlled environment in terms of gear. Then save and back up the fort save befor begining testing so you have an easy reset from a known start point.

It's probably best to make use of doors and locks to isolate certain areas of the fort. For instance... say path finding is playing a role in equipment selection bugs. We'd want 2 arsenal dwarf offices. One near a weaponry stock pile and one far. The same for barracks or other locations a dwarf maybe in while deciding hey i need to go pick up my new sword.

DF is a rediculously complex system. Designing a test bed is a big task all in it self, much less coming up with a test strategy.

Sounds good! I can't search around that much for today, but I will see to do this tomorrow. Also seeing how large the response is, since I simply don't have the time to do much testing on my own. But at least one companion I have found yet. (you )

[K4el]

I think the best way to get support is to provide a concise list of test with clear instructions along with a test bed save for people to use.

List the tests is short managable groups. Let people that want to help take a task here and there in easily handled portions.

Of course the question then becomes if this is helpful for Toady or even welcome. I'm not really sure what his test process is and if we're welcome to help or not. 0o

[grufti]

I think the best way to get support is to provide a concise list of test with clear instructions along with a test bed save for people to use.

List the tests is short managable groups. Let people that want to help take a task here and there in easily handled portions.

Of course the question then becomes if this is helpful for Toady or even welcome. I'm not really sure what his test process is and if we're welcome to help or not. 0o

I've put it under his post on the BT, we'll see if and how he reacts - I'm off for now 

[K4el]

you did? 0o

[grufti]

as the the equipment screw after training seems to be fixed, I've tested the rest of the tasks myself and the arsenal dwarf seems to be correct right now. anyway here are the saves I've been playing around with. and for further instructions I'm copiing the post I've put on the BT about this:

sooo here we go. One of the military related bugs seems to be fixed for 31.06 as the following shows.

I packed all the saves in one archive, only reffering to the subarchives as save1,2,3
can be downloaded from here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2479 [^]

as noted above some of the bugs seem to be fixed, so maybe only save2 and 3 show something interesting.

I altered the following raws: raw/objects/inorganic_stone_layer.txt by the following:
i replaced all [aquifer] by <aquifer> in order to not generate aquifers. Didn't work as expected, but I found a perfect embark place for this testing anyway.

(save1)
instructions: go to forges with F3, to main halls with F2

1. assign commander
2. assign two captains
3. assign second captain with vacant
4. assign first captain vacant - you'll see the captain positions won't become less - ## 1st bug
5. assign first second captain as first one
6. create squad from first captain with standard metal armor - you'll see the first position is empty - ##think follow up bug from 1st one
7. create squad from second captain with standard metal armor - the now first captain will show up in the first position
8. assign members to the second squad (I've assigned five members to the squad)
9. add defend alert
10. set defend burrow "outside"/sleep in room at will/inactive uniformed/min. 3 dwarves as schedule of the new alert
11. assign the new alert to the squad
12. forge armor for the squad
13. works! - the military screen is bit screwed though - haven't tried what happens if you assign members to squad one, bit this one shouldn't exist anyway (save2)
14. lower the minimum dwarves in the TRAINING/ACTIVE schedule to 3 for the squad
15. create barracks in the prepared room at z-1 (just near the entrance), assign it as training ('t') and sleeping ('z') zone for the second squad
16. set the alert to Active/Training for the second squad
17. let them train for at least a season (training is screwed however, my dvarves where half the time waiting and organizing...)
18. forge weapons for the squad
19. works fine - seems to be fixed in the new version... )
20. create waterskins and backbags in the leather works (waterskins appear as flasks and won't be transported to the stockpile...)
21. only some of them get assigned a waterskin by the arsenal dwarf (watch via Pri/Assignments ('P') on the military equipment screen) and you can't assign them manually.
(save3)

hope this helps.