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Author Topic: Embark Strategies  (Read 15871 times)

Shurhaian

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2010, 12:48:22 pm »

I'm not really good at putting a whole build together, but some general points:

-Starting with a layer of soil means quick and easy excavation of initial stockpiles and living area, and also means there's no need to worry about stone cluttering it.
-Keep the anvil - it's cheap, and is one of few things that can't be made from scratch.
-Take at least one pick. Even if you intend to smith tools, that initial start on mining is a major boon.
-Drop at least one battle-axe. It's probably better to make your woodcutter an axedwarf than to try to find room for skills on two separate dwarves.

Probably won't be able to do too much actual tinkering to come up with more anytime soon - desktop computer seems to be dying(either memory or motherboard or both having Issues) and my laptop was marginal with 40d##, never mind 31.x.
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jokermatt999

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2010, 08:38:54 pm »

For those of you who forge your own weapons, what do your other dwarves do while you set about forging? I always find my miners are the limiting factor on what I do for the first season or two. I set my farmers, mason (for a few days) and leader to gathering plants til I get some stone, then I build a mason's workshop and make a chair for the leader to start managing jobs and bookkeeping. The farmers remain gathering plants til I get a farm, the carpenter/axedwarf cuts down trees or makes beds, the mason makes tables and chairs, leader manages/bookkeeps and the miners dig deeper.
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Marconius

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2010, 09:15:16 pm »

I think taking three miners is always a good idea. You'll be doing a lot of digging at the start, so it's best to make it quick. You can train your three miners in other things (masonry, mechanics and... something) on the side, so they'll be useful. Don't forget to take enough picks!

I usually take two woodcutters too, since I tend to use a lot of lumber for making beds and (more importantly) barrels to keep my booze in. Again, two axes!
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Zanziik

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2010, 09:16:23 pm »

For those of you who forge your own weapons, what do your other dwarves do while you set about forging? I always find my miners are the limiting factor on what I do for the first season or two. I set my farmers, mason (for a few days) and leader to gathering plants til I get some stone, then I build a mason's workshop and make a chair for the leader to start managing jobs and bookkeeping. The farmers remain gathering plants til I get a farm, the carpenter/axedwarf cuts down trees or makes beds, the mason makes tables and chairs, leader manages/bookkeeps and the miners dig deeper.

In my experience, getting a smelter and a forge up and running quickly is not all that difficult. I'll have the smith construct the buildings and get to work immediately, near to where my eventual entrance will be, and turn his hauling off. All the others haul stuff off the wagon and near to the door for quicker transfer to permanent stockpiles once my picks are ready. I always forge my weapons on site, never seen a reason not to, even in 40d.

Paul

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2010, 12:46:35 am »

What exactly are you spending the extra points to forge your own picks on anyway? I can see forging the axe on site, since woodcutting isn't exactly a rush thing thats needed right away - but mining has always been the limiting thing on my starting progress.

Say you take 2 copper bars and a rock. You build wood furnace out of copper and forge out of the rock. Burn the wood from wagon, deconstruct the furnace, craft the two picks. You saved a total of 68 points and did 7 different labors, which could probably be done in a bit under a week of dwarf-time.

That sounds good in theory, but what exactly are you doing that makes that 68 points so useful that it becomes worth the hassle and the extra time? A pair of skilled miners could have already dug out 100 tiles of your early living space in which to set up your fort. Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but neither is 68 points.

You could get 34 units of alcohol, with the 7 barrels that comes with. While the miners are digging you could have your other dwarves gather plants and quickly get enough to make 34 alcohol, plus the seeds they yield for food. The barrels would require a woodcutter and a carpenter, but wouldn't take long either. Or you could use that starting week to have your miners dig you out an underground farm beside one of the murky pools and get started on early farming, quickly resulting in way more than 34 alcohol.

If you really wanted to cut corners and save points at every opportunity, bring plump helmets instead of dwarven wine. Assuming we want exactly 100 wine at embark, you could:

Buy 100 wine (200 points)
Buy 20 plump helmets, make the wagon into 2 barrels, and brew 100 alcohol (80 points).

Plus you get the added bonus of around 30 free plump helmet spawn, which can be planted or cooked into meals. The spawn could replace 30 of your meat if you cooked it, freeing up another 60 points. Thats 180 points, and any old dwarf could be doing this work while your miners dig out the fort. Granted you are starting with 18 fewer barrels since your plants come in 2 barrels and the alcohol would have come in 20, but bring 18 wood (54 pts) and have a carpenter get to work and you could quickly get them made plus get carpentry experience (higher quality beds when you make them) to boot. Or do the whole buy-one-of-every-type-of-animal-meat thing where you get barrels with every chunk of meat, goodness knows there are enough food animals now (you can even buy cave spider brains!).

I just never saw the option of making my own picks that appealing. If the amount of points you saved was more significant I might, but it really isn't that many points. I'd rather have my miners up and running on day 1.
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Zanziik

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #80 on: April 15, 2010, 03:17:42 pm »

-snip-

I've never found that mining is my limiting factor, though I really am probably a lot more minimalist with my digging than most players. In order to cut down the number of labors necessary to get your picks made, bring bituminous coal and one piece of coke, rather than wood. Skip the wood furnace, and build a smelter and you're right into the forging. In the 'bit under a week' that this takes, you can move your stuff out of the wagon and to your entrance, you can have people start gathering and cutting wood, and have a higher inventory of each of those quickly.

The time it takes to set up a farm can be offset by bringing more drink with the points you save, I never bring plump helmets on embark, just spawn. By the time I've got my miners their picks, there's still really no immediate danger out doors that requires they be in RIGHT AWAY.

riznar

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #81 on: April 15, 2010, 03:38:52 pm »

There should be a reaction to build an anvil from scratch at horrible efficiency, the idea being they go through an iterative process and waste a bunch of materials on better and better proto-anvils before they get a proper one.

http://www.metalsmith.org/pub/mtlsmith/V05.3/Hist-anvil.htm
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pushy

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #82 on: April 15, 2010, 06:11:39 pm »

The reason that you give the carpenter woodcutting and don't apply the same thing to mining is pretty easy to understand, really.
Yes...except that I was comparing a carpenter to a mason, not a miner :P
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Treason

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2010, 09:07:47 am »

To those of you suggesting bringing Bauxite along from the start..I ask, "why?"

I know it's the a magma-safe stone, but if you check out the wiki, you will find that the number of magma safe stone types has been dramatically increased.  Looked like the idea from one of the mods was implemented in to the base game.
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Jake

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #84 on: April 16, 2010, 01:20:59 pm »

To those of you suggesting bringing Bauxite along from the start..I ask, "why?"

I know it's the a magma-safe stone, but if you check out the wiki, you will find that the number of magma safe stone types has been dramatically increased.  Looked like the idea from one of the mods was implemented in to the base game.
  Habit, I suppose; it's been magma-safe since the beginning and it's the one everyone remembers. Metal mechanisms have been on the to-do list for a while anyway.
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Squirrelloid

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #85 on: April 16, 2010, 02:10:36 pm »

Deep red is also pretty.  Don't underestimate the value of pretty.
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Ilmoran

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #86 on: April 16, 2010, 02:19:48 pm »

Deep red is also pretty.  Don't underestimate the value of pretty.

Deep red is also useful in marking "This is for use with magma", or "This lever is linked to magma".
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tbino

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Re: Embark Strategies
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2010, 02:21:50 am »

Oops NECRO Mwahhahahah. [is stuck by lightning.]
I personally like pitchblende because it is both magma safe and radioactive.
Plus it's purple. :D
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 02:26:01 am by tbino »
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