Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[SpacemanSpiff]

This is a masterful steel battle axe. It menaces with rotting shards of goblin brain.

You know, this just made me realize that the injury system is missing... something.  Right now if you get a good shot on an opponent's head, it's always a horizontal swipe that takes it clean off at the neck.  But what about the axe strikes that cleave someone vertically from the crown of their head all the way down to their sternum?  Extra awesome, and guaranteed to leave your dwarf struggling to pull its axe out of the (VERY) mutilated corpse

[smigenboger]

I believe that happens already, though it doesn't get stuck in. It happens in adventure mode in 40d

[andrei901]

Not likely to happen with an axe-its too big and heavy, and likely to slide out on its own. That would happen with swords though-thats why in kendo, the japanese samurai-katana-killing-dealio-teaching-style, they taught you to only cleave the top of one's skull. If something as light as a katana goes into the brainpan, its not gonna come back out without some serious work.

At least, I think it was because katanas were too light to be easily removed. Anyone with better knowledge, correct me.

EDIT: Also, brains, lungs, and internals don't really "break" or "shatter". They generally "rip" or "lacerate".

[smigenboger]

Seems like the heart and both lungs always get crit'd in 40d

[tehc]

I tried to use some wrestlers originally in the new version. Against a pack of ice wolves, 3 out of 8 died of thirst and the others got killed by a werewolf. A few years later, artifact adamantine battle axe with various decorations in iron and steel. Single Axe lord pretty much decimates an entire gobbo siege, armed in with the axe, steel armor and another artifact bronze shield.

[Hyndis]

Wrestling should be a supplementary skill, not a mainline fighting skill. Seriously, you expect a Greco-Roman wrestler with a cestus to beat someone armed with weapons that don't require him to grab the other guy?

Agree.

Unarmed combat is a last resort if you must fight but have no weapons. No army in the history of the world has sent in its soldiers into combat without bothering to give them weapons.

Well...except for the Soviets. They had more men than rifles. They also didn't care at all about casualties. 

All weapons, even simple ones such as a wooden stick, are far more effective than bare hands. Bare hands are not useful weapons at all.

I'm not sure why this point even has to be made. Apparently some people think they can take on a guy with a sword bare handed and win. The guy with the better weapon will win. Simple as that. If the other guy has iron weapons and you don't even have a wood stick, you're probably screwed.

[andrei901]

You, my friend, have never heard of the national martial art of Russia. It's called 'sambo', and is designed to make people look like complete turds while breaking their arms and stabbing them with whatever the hell they are holding. Also, krav maga.

Keep in mind that the logistics behind spending a few years training hundreds of thousands of well trained wrestlers made it much easier to hand everyone a sword and tell them to go stab people. My point is that weapons should be more effective, but trained wrestlers should be able to at least break arms and legs if not rip them off, due to superior agility, speed, and strength. Or at least disarm and stab someone with their own weapon.

[Mandaril]

Yeah, the difference between experienced + armed + geared vs unarmed unexperienced & ungeared is HUGE. It is also hugely rewarding when you finally get a working, badass near-invincible squad of Superman Dwarves. It's worth all the work and care they need.

Ooh...and remember, weapon type DOES matter ...and so does stats ("Strong" etc). 

[Cotes]

You, my friend, have never heard of the national martial art of Russia. It's called 'sambo', and is designed to make people look like complete turds while breaking their arms and stabbing them with whatever the hell they are holding. Also, krav maga.

Since dwarf fortress doesn't have guns, wrestlers should be able to at least break arms and legs if not rip them off, due to superior agility, speed, and strength. Or at least disarm and stab someone with their own weapon.

Ah, the magical martial arts of the world... Seriously though, there's no such unarmed technique or tricks that make fighting anyone with a proper weapon a good idea. Yes, if you are skilled you might be able to disarm a guy coming at you if he doesn't know what he's doing, but the fact is that a guy with sword can kill you from farther away than you can even reach him.

I'm not completely against a skilled enough dwarf being able to take down a poorly skilled and armed enemy with their bare hands, but not even a barely competent armed enemy.

Martial arts don't make you superhuman, no matter how good you are.

[andrei901]

I fully agree that they don't make you superhuman. Or superdwarven. But a legendary wrestler in steel plate should not be dropping to a novice axegoblin's copper halberd in one swing. Wrestling should at least make the dwarves dodge better. Even if you're not likely to kill something, you should be able to avoid dying to it. I always assumed that wrestlers were supposed to keep attackers occupied to buy time for the real military to show up.

[Cotes]

I fully agree that they don't make you superhuman. Or superdwarven. But a legendary wrestler in steel plate should not be dropping to a novice axegoblin's copper halberd in one swing. Wrestling should at least make the dwarves dodge better. Even if you're not likely to kill something, you should be able to avoid dying to it. I always assumed that wrestlers were supposed to keep attackers occupied to buy time for the real military to show up.

That's true. Like said, wrestling skill should help armed combat too in things like that.

[Iburnaga]

I hop we get wrestling back to normal. >.> I liked my dwarven monastery.

[Cespinarve]

Yeah, the difference between experienced + armed + geared vs unarmed unexperienced & ungeared is HUGE. It is also hugely rewarding when you finally get a working, badass near-invincible squad of Superman Dwarves. It's worth all the work and care they need.

Ooh...and remember, weapon type DOES matter ...and so does stats ("Strong" etc). 

In my case, stats are dictated by this little flow chart:

                                   Migrant
                                        |
                                        |
                                    Useful?
                                   |        |
                                   |        |
                                  Yes     No
                                   |         |
                                   |         |
                                   A         ------- New recruit!
                                 Bed
                                Is over there

[Puzzlemaker]

A trained, capable soldier with martial arts experience could probably beat another soldier with no experience armed with a weapon.  But if that same soldier had a weapon, he could probably beat five.

It's all about force multipliers.  Training and experience is a huge multiplier.  Good equipment and weapons is another one.  Together, they increase the strength of a force tenfold.

[Mandaril]

In my case, stats are dictated by this little flow chart:

                                   Migrant
                                        |
                                        |
                                    Useful?
                                   |        |
                                   |        |
                                  Yes     No
                                   |         |
                                   |         |
                                   A         ------- New recruit!
                                 Bed
                                Is over there

Weellll....you can't deny these two are very, very different:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3568/pic1yb.png
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5701/pic2a.png

Guess which one will do better as a soldier