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Author Topic: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Trust-o-nomics Edition  (Read 2024112 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38025 on: June 16, 2014, 07:33:30 pm »

Trying to beat moral lessons into children teaches them to fear or to fight.

nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38026 on: June 16, 2014, 07:35:50 pm »

As a kid who got whooped plenty I can tell you all it did was breed resentment and anger, which is usually the emotion the flogger was engaging in. Which do you think is worse? Being whipped with a belt by someone in a calm, neutral tone of voice or one that's shouting and being angry? Answer is, both are pretty fucked up. Worlds' got plenty of pain in it already, parents don't need to be dolling it out to their children. I'm not saying a total brat doesn't deserve a good slap when they've gone way too far. But systematically whipping your kids? That's too far.
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Imperial Guardsman

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38027 on: June 16, 2014, 07:38:10 pm »

whooped plenty
I envy you.
I WISH I got whooped. When I did something that made my dad mad and went further without knowing it, I was tossed around like a ragdoll. After I got a surgery on my legs, he started kicking me in the back of my legs when I did something that he didn't like.
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Tawa

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38028 on: June 16, 2014, 07:42:32 pm »

whooped plenty
I envy you.
I WISH I got whooped. When I did something that made my dad mad and went further without knowing it, I was tossed around like a ragdoll. After I got a surgery on my legs, he started kicking me in the back of my legs when I did something that he didn't like.
O_o
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Tiruin

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38029 on: June 16, 2014, 07:42:58 pm »

Actually I counter that premise--yes, it does breed resentment and anger, but there are those tiny details done in such punishments that also steer what is being bred. Not saying that the punishments are ok, but that the method was deemed effective (...Personal experience >_>) because of those minute details. Bad thing is, the bigger details are always more prominent (the whoopin') which leads to...err. lacking study on them(?).

Not in the USA. Zero tolerence ftw!
Like dis thing.
My dad hit me with dem slippers when I was young whenever I did something bad, but he also taught me alternatives--why this would be done and what I did. He helped me understand what the heck was wrong and what I could alternatively do instead. Do I hate him for it? Heck no. At all. The act of punishment? Perhaps--but the punishment dealt left no scars or permanent wounds and to expound on this matter, it was more of the focus on the minute detail that made it good. If on reading this you focus on the punishment--do note: it was used as a reference rather than 'this is what you deserve', as the person in question (my dad) was targeting that attitude and not me.
Yeah, minute details. >_>
...
Heh, we had the thing on 'the face'. *does something mildly bad* = :I = :< = *relent!* "You don't do that + 'why'"
Sort of an in-joke for family xD


...I frown at some of those cases of superficiality in the US. Though it has merit--there is a subtle line between discipline and parental/domestic abuse. It's all in those minute details. Resentment and anger? Only if it isn't thoroughly understood (or, in cases wherein its parental/domestic abuse, then it is justified to feel such, but not as a generality/label when..err, talking about discipline. My wording fails to directly differentiate but..I hope the reader gets the point ._. I mean--you think you were doing was right; I know I did, so I sorta felt D:?! when I was being disciplined--it was explained to me however, and tempered by benevolence.)

You can't beat lessons into people. Acting purely on anger will only lead to destruction. You can teach people, however.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 07:51:34 pm by Tiruin »
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Yoink

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38030 on: June 16, 2014, 07:45:13 pm »

For once, Tiruin's post made perfect sense to me and I wholeheartedly agree with it. :P
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38031 on: June 16, 2014, 07:48:56 pm »

Ah yes, the "little details" that happen to be the undesirable effect of breaking a child. Such a small thing that is.

Tiruin

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38032 on: June 16, 2014, 07:51:57 pm »

Ah yes, the "little details" that happen to be the undesirable effect of breaking a child. Such a small thing that is.
Back up and expound on your words Loud Whispers. We're coming from different viewpoints here.
And for me, you seem to be taking it all as a clump of one matter. Generalizing, I mean.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38033 on: June 16, 2014, 07:56:03 pm »

Ah yes, the "little details" that happen to be the undesirable effect of breaking a child. Such a small thing that is.
Back up and expound on your words Loud Whispers. We're coming from different viewpoints here.
And for me, you seem to be taking it all as a clump of one matter. Generalizing, I mean.
Little details that steer resentment and anger. Effective punishment. Your words.

BlackFlyme

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38034 on: June 16, 2014, 07:57:51 pm »

All I have to compare to are a few friends whose parent's punishments were comparable to assault, and my siblings getting one hard smack when they are bad.

I personally got weird mind games from my mom.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38035 on: June 16, 2014, 07:58:51 pm »

You can use physical discipline without beating a child half to death. I guess it's in moderation - a stinging slap on the buttocks teaches them not to do it again. When you've got a young child, sitting them down and explaining what they did wrong won't necessarily work if they can't or won't understand properly what they've done wrong.

Just hitting them whenever they do something wrong isn't the right way, and I think that's what Tir is getting at, but used as punctuation - and with a proper reason why - it can be a valid parenting tool.
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Putnam

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38036 on: June 16, 2014, 08:03:56 pm »

When you've got a young child, sitting them down and explaining what they did wrong won't necessarily work if they can't or won't understand properly what they've done wrong.

I really don't like it when people underestimate children. Sure, a 3-year-old might not understand things, but even in that case negative punishment (taking away something they like) could be just as effective as positive punishment (giving them something they don't)... unless the child is in such a situation where negative punishment may not be possible, which is a very bad situation indeed.

Th4DwArfY1

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38037 on: June 16, 2014, 08:05:15 pm »

I got the odd half-hearted slap from my mum when I was driving her insane (My brother and I when younger never shut up during the night, and kept the house awake) but usually she just had to be disappointed in me, and then I'd feel guilty and try to fix it. No physical violence at all.

I understand that doesn't work for everyone, hence why I believe that spoiled brat needs sense knocked into him. Not badly, but enough so he doesn't get worse from a stranger later.
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nenjin

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38038 on: June 16, 2014, 08:07:19 pm »

I think it teaches a kid that if they can withstand pain, then they can ignore consequences. And then they become a teenager and a potential sociopath.

Hitting kids is only good for bringing them up short, IMO, and that's for extreme cases. Hitting your kid, or spanking them, or whipping them, does impart a valuable lesson: that at the end of most behavior people disagree with is pain. On the other hand, when you're trying to impart that lesson over, say, breaking a toy? You're teaching them a meta-world lesson for a micro-behavior.

In other words, the punishment should match the crime. Kid breaks a toy? You take their toys away as a lesson about what happens when you break all your toys and no one buys you anymore. Your kid steal? Make them work for free on pain of death. The point is, you don't use the lash as your default discipline tool because it sends a fucked up message to kids about the nature of consequences, and results in fucked up coping mechanisms. Everyone always likes to act like talking it through with your kids afterwards makes it ok, I don't really think so. It's necessary to any degree to explain stuff to kids, but the whole "You made me do that" routine just leads to a messed up Jekyll/Hyde relationship between parent and child. And in truth, I think it's more to assuage a parent's guilt at hitting their child by trying to rationalize what they did to them. Especially after the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th time...
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 08:09:19 pm by nenjin »
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Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
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Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you RRRRRRAAAAGGGGEEEE today: Dig Deep Edition
« Reply #38039 on: June 16, 2014, 08:10:49 pm »

You can use physical discipline without beating a child half to death. I guess it's in moderation - a stinging slap on the buttocks teaches them not to do it again. When you've got a young child, sitting them down and explaining what they did wrong won't necessarily work if they can't or won't understand properly what they've done wrong.

Just hitting them whenever they do something wrong isn't the right way, and I think that's what Tir is getting at, but used as punctuation - and with a proper reason why - it can be a valid parenting tool.

If the child can't understand what it did wrong then it won't understand why it was beaten either.

I got the odd half-hearted slap from my mum when I was driving her insane (My brother and I when younger never shut up during the night, and kept the house awake) but usually she just had to be disappointed in me, and then I'd feel guilty and try to fix it. No physical violence at all.

I understand that doesn't work for everyone, hence why I believe that spoiled brat needs sense knocked into him. Not badly, but enough so he doesn't get worse from a stranger later.

Personally, I find that the people most in need of a good beating are those who wish others to be beat up. Just to teach them what idiots they are.
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