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[Krelos]

In the modern gaming world the only thing more discouraging than the vast majority of crap games turned out is the vast majority of crap spewed by gamers themselves.

[forsaken1111]

Yes, well... some people ^^^ are just assholes.

The general impression left by comments like those by Mfbrew below is that many DF-zealots have an antipathy to anyone being influenced by DF. Even calling it a clone is a touch disparaging, since it's clear that it's more like a development fork than a straight clone.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I don't get the zealotry surrounding DF sometimes. Lol. Why can no one ever make a game even influenced by DF? Do you only play RTS games made by Blizzard, because the rest "stole" the idea from Warcraft: Orcs and Humans? Do you only play FPS games by iD software because they created Wolfenstein 3D?

Hell, by the standard being advanced here, Toady stole the god-game intricacy and simulation ideas from Will Wright and Peter Molyneaux, heh.

Anyway, Toady is not going down this avenue of streamlining and making it more game-y rather than simulation-y, at least in the forseeable future. It's a legit angle for someone else to pursue. Good for this guy.

I'll have you know that Warcraft's idea was stolen too.

Also, it is still called an alpha, not the beta this guy is claiming. So what, a good UI trumps gameplay in level of completeness? I don't think he's got anything real just yet.

Yes, I agree Toady would get great benefit from spending some time on his UI, and he usually does after each major release. Compare 40d with the ones that came out just after history was created. Not to the degree you guys want, but it is there.

As for "shooting himself in the foot", roguelikes are a niche. You all want him to get better UI? Put your votes where your mouths are.

Eternal Suggestions
#5: Better Graphics Support
#12: Integrated Dwarf Foreman
#15: Abstract the Interface
#27: Interface Improvements

If it was so critical, how come Improved Hauling and Standing Production orders are higher than Graphics support? And Graphics support isn't about UI anyway, it's just about separating some things from the game so as to allow tilesets to be worth something.
#6 with 440 votes is improved mechanics, which brings in more machines. That is nearly 3.8 times more votes for more machines that mechanics make versus allowing people to customize the interface.
The category of interface improvements only has 65 votes.

You wonder why he hasn't done it? It costs NOTHING to show how much it is wanted, and yet in the top ten there isn't really anything that results in an improved interface!

[forsaken1111]

Toady also doesn't go strictly by that vote list. He has already implemented part of "30.    Ability to buy sand/water/rough gems from merchants" as you can now buy sand from merchants.

[Mfbrew]

Hey kids, read my post more carefully.  I called goblin camp a settlers clone, not a df clone.

The name is just a parody of DF - kind of like parody game ideas people have tossed around before - elf retreat etc. 

Just because something is an ASCII strategy game with minimal abstraction doesn't make it a DF clone. Maybe a fortress mode clone, but even then, not really. 

That said, if the kid adds dangerous physics and dark humor and high fantasy etc, then it'll be pretty clear he's just trying to leech off another man's success, and that's pathetic.

[nil]

The general impression left by comments like those by Mfbrew below is that many DF-zealots have an antipathy to anyone being influenced by DF. Even calling it a clone is a touch disparaging, since it's clear that it's more like a development fork than a straight clone.

You're just seeing what you were looking for. 

[HatfieldCW]

I'd welcome a UI revamp of DF, and that looks like it has a lot of elements that I'd like to see here.  UI doesn't seem to be high on Toady's priorities list, though.

[Jiri Petru]

Probably one of the more interesting features in 0.1 is a basic stock manager. You can define minimums for item types and the manager will distribute jobs to your workshops in an attempt to fulfill those minimums. Other than that I'm putting in basic stuff required for it to be playable like combat, hunger and thirst, random groups of monsters that attack your settlement (no real sieges yet).

Basically 0.1 is going to be in a state that you can designate farm plots and stockpiles, chop down trees for walls and workshops, get a basic economy running (without you having to keep ordering up basic necessities every now and then) and station military squads to defend your settlement from roving monsters.

I'm hoping to get this done in around 2 weeks, but that's not a definite schedule so don't lynch me if it slips a bit, I don't want to start promising things prematurely. Work and life in general means I don't have much time to work on this.

There's a lot of little things to do but I'm not going to bother listing each point on my list. I've already got things planned a few versions out, there's a lot of nice things upcoming.

Also all the talk about if this is going to be "just a df clone" or something else, it's definitely something else. I have my own plans and what I want out of this is not df with a better interface, Goblin Camp is going to be it's own game.

Also, I have a little german shepherd puppy...

[Urist McDepravity]

Even calling it a clone is a touch disparaging, since it's clear that it's more like a development fork than a straight clone.

With the name it has, which is OBVIOUS and CLEAR reference to DF, its hard to think of it as anything other than clone.

As for 'zealots' question, DF is not FOSS and Toady earns his money on it. And many times stated that he disapproves forking/cloning and feels insecure about it. Good feeling Toady == better/more coding.
Besides, that 'goblin camp' does not say it would be FOSS either, so there's not even slightest reason to be kind to it.

[sweitx]

Eternal Suggestions
#5: Better Graphics Support
#12: Integrated Dwarf Foreman
#15: Abstract the Interface
#27: Interface Improvements

If it was so critical, how come Improved Hauling and Standing Production orders are higher than Graphics support? And Graphics support isn't about UI anyway, it's just about separating some things from the game so as to allow tilesets to be worth something.
#6 with 440 votes is improved mechanics, which brings in more machines. That is nearly 3.8 times more votes for more machines that mechanics make versus allowing people to customize the interface.
The category of interface improvements only has 65 votes.

You wonder why he hasn't done it? It costs NOTHING to show how much it is wanted, and yet in the top ten there isn't really anything that results in an improved interface!

Standing Production order is arguably an interface improvement, namely more automation so the user to have to constantly order production.

[Deon]

With the name it has, which is OBVIOUS and CLEAR reference to DF, its hard to think of it as anything other than clone.

Eh... It's not a clone. It's a tribute, fan project or "inspired by". You don't call flash games with diablo characters "Diablo Clones", don't you?
P.S> If you didn't know, there's a game about elves like that. Where they fall from trees during their sleep .

[forsaken1111]

And many times stated that he disapproves forking/cloning and feels insecure about it. Good feeling Toady == better/more coding.

He can disapprove forking/cloning all he wants, he still can't do anything about it. People have a right to make whatever game they feel like making. It is not his place to decide what others can or cannot do on their own, so long as they do not steal his code or infringe on his property.

Incidentally, wasn't Dwarf Fortress itself inspired by LOTR and the mines of moria?

[Urist McDepravity]

People have a right to make whatever game they feel like making.

Yes, and other people have a right to call it whatever they like, including 'clone', act zealotly and so on.

[forsaken1111]

People have a right to make whatever game they feel like making.

Yes, and other people have a right to call it whatever they like, including 'clone', act zealotly and so on.

I didn't dispute that...

[Deon]

It's a bit sad though how such "inspired" games meet a wall of fanrage. I myself called some game like that in the past a "clone" and not very proud of myself. Come on, it's just the setting, nobody will ever come close to Toady's DF. If they would try to reverse-engineer the code or do exactly the same game and distribute it as a "better" DF, then it would be not right. However the author clearly stated that he wants to go a different way (more interface, more strategy stuff, less world-sim).