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Author Topic: Goblin camp  (Read 46865 times)

Vester

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2010, 08:35:35 pm »

Quote from: Aryon on Something Awful
Probably one of the more interesting features in 0.1 is a basic stock manager. You can define minimums for item types and the manager will distribute jobs to your workshops in an attempt to fulfill those minimums. Other than that I'm putting in basic stuff required for it to be playable like combat, hunger and thirst, random groups of monsters that attack your settlement (no real sieges yet).

Basically 0.1 is going to be in a state that you can designate farm plots and stockpiles, chop down trees for walls and workshops, get a basic economy running (without you having to keep ordering up basic necessities every now and then) and station military squads to defend your settlement from roving monsters.

I'm hoping to get this done in around 2 weeks, but that's not a definite schedule so don't lynch me if it slips a bit, I don't want to start promising things prematurely. Work and life in general means I don't have much time to work on this.

There's a lot of little things to do but I'm not going to bother listing each point on my list. I've already got things planned a few versions out, there's a lot of nice things upcoming.

Also all the talk about if this is going to be "just a df clone" or something else, it's definitely something else. I have my own plans and what I want out of this is not df with a better interface, Goblin Camp is going to be it's own game.

Also, I have a little german shepherd puppy...

Well, he does seem to have a Scamps substitute.
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Rafal99

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2010, 10:00:49 pm »

And many times stated that he disapproves forking/cloning and feels insecure about it. Good feeling Toady == better/more coding.
He can disapprove forking/cloning all he wants, he still can't do anything about it. People have a right to make whatever game they feel like making. It is not his place to decide what others can or cannot do on their own, so long as they do not steal his code or infringe on his property.

Incidentally, wasn't Dwarf Fortress itself inspired by LOTR and the mines of moria?

Also by other roguelikes, like ADOM for example which is the only one I know with a world map, represented by ascii tiles similarly like in DF.

It is just that good games inspire others to make games sharing the same gameplay elements, you can't stop that, nor you should.

As long as the author doesn't insult DF fans or tells people to not donate to Toady or tries to stole code from DF while trying to make the almost exact clone, there is no reason to rage at anyone and please just stop that.
Let the guy have the fun of making his own game, it won't hurt anyone, can only be good.
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Kogan Loloklam

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2010, 10:14:06 pm »

Well, he does seem to have a Scamps substitute.

BURN HIM!

Mutilate the corpses!
A few other things as well...


It was his mention that he didn't like the direction that it was going and then only provides a demo of his fancy UI that causes the rage. Really what is he thinking?
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jeffb

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2010, 01:32:38 am »

It was his mention that he didn't like the direction that it was going and then only provides a demo of his fancy UI that causes the rage. Really what is he thinking?

What.
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Kogan Loloklam

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2010, 09:10:59 am »


What.
He said he made it because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.
His "Demo" makes a big point of showing off his UI.
He didn't talk about anything else the game has. It's just a fancy UI, and that made because he didn't like the direction Dwarf Fortress was going.

Therefore, regarding the rage he is getting... He was asking for it.
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... if someone dies TOUGH LUCK. YOU SHOULD HAVE PAYED ATTENTION DURING ALL THE DAMNED DODGING DEMONSTRATIONS!

Mfbrew

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2010, 09:19:54 am »

The somethingawful thread goes into further details about his plans for the game.  It sounds like he's totally missed the point of DF and wants to make a plain citybuilding game without any of the crazy science or worldgen DF has.

Goblin camp is neither a DF clone nor a DF killer, despite the unoriginal and misleading name.

The dude would be better off adding cool graphics and making it an indie rts or making it a turn based browser game...
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Davion

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2010, 09:27:20 am »

The somethingawful thread goes into further details about his plans for the game.  It sounds like he's totally missed the point of DF and wants to make a plain citybuilding game without any of the crazy science or worldgen DF has.

It sounds more like he thinks the "point" that DF has acquired over the years isn't worth missing.

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Deon

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2010, 11:04:10 am »

He just wants a different citybuilding game. How is it bad?
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Beran Senae

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2010, 11:09:03 am »

ITT: people calling a very early pre-alpha build of a game worthless.

Seriously, guys, stop it. you're making me feel bad about being a DF fan, and I've been playing since 2D. I'm just glad no other fanbase feels this way about a game, otherwise we might not have progressed past Doom and Akalabeth. He's making a game clearly influenced by DF and that's a Good Thing. I, personally, would like to see multiple projects along this line, so that there might be a bit of competition.

Over on the SA forums they're saying that DF is just a mad libs generator, and in a lot of ways they're right. The stated purpose of DF is to automatically generate a world, replete with legends, civilizations, monsters, and people. We like it because not only is it a madlibs generator, but it's a damn fine madlibs generator.

This Kobald Camp project already has some things that I think it does better then DF (and anyone who tries to flat out say I'm wrong is a moron. Toady is, in fact, human, and he'll be the first to admit he's fallible). Aside from the UI (which is great so far) I like the fact that  the real work is done by your orcs, and all the menial labour seems to be done by the gobbos. I absolutely love the idea of setting a hard floor for materials, so that you never need to worry about running out of, for example, iron bars. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that if you have enough goblins when you issue a work order they'll bring all the materials to the workshop at once.

And finally, anyone saying anything denigrating about the gameplay: Don't be stupid, the guy only started it about a month ago, there is no gameplay yet.
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jvempire

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2010, 11:46:05 am »

ITT: people calling a very early pre-alpha build of a game worthless.

Seriously, guys, stop it. you're making me feel bad about being a DF fan, and I've been playing since 2D. I'm just glad no other fanbase feels this way about a game, otherwise we might not have progressed past Doom and Akalabeth. He's making a game clearly influenced by DF and that's a Good Thing. I, personally, would like to see multiple projects along this line, so that there might be a bit of competition.

Over on the SA forums they're saying that DF is just a mad libs generator, and in a lot of ways they're right. The stated purpose of DF is to automatically generate a world, replete with legends, civilizations, monsters, and people. We like it because not only is it a madlibs generator, but it's a damn fine madlibs generator.

This Kobald Camp project already has some things that I think it does better then DF (and anyone who tries to flat out say I'm wrong is a moron. Toady is, in fact, human, and he'll be the first to admit he's fallible). Aside from the UI (which is great so far) I like the fact that  the real work is done by your orcs, and all the menial labour seems to be done by the gobbos. I absolutely love the idea of setting a hard floor for materials, so that you never need to worry about running out of, for example, iron bars. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that if you have enough goblins when you issue a work order they'll bring all the materials to the workshop at once.

And finally, anyone saying anything denigrating about the gameplay: Don't be stupid, the guy only started it about a month ago, there is no gameplay yet.
I agree with this. There is nothing wrong with making a game based off of something you were inspired by. For example, Minecraft was inspired by DF, but Minecraft is not like DF at all so does that make it "miss the point"? No. Not only does having more games of a "genre" make competition, but it also adds new ideas to the table. Everyone's got their own vision, the guy making Goblin Camp may have a different one than Toady's but that doesn't make it better or worse.
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Mfbrew

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2010, 12:00:17 pm »

I agree with you guys that building a new genre and making inspired innovations is a positive thing. 

The goblin camp guy just deserves a bit of flaming for his choice of words about not liking "the direction DF has been going" when it's clear he never understood DF to begin with.

Creating a new racing league because the current racing league is too burdened by rules that counter its initial purpose:  good excuse to "not like the direction it's going"

Noisily splitting from a racing league you're in because you don't like cars and motorcycles after all: retarded.

What he should have said is that DF has some ideas he likes but that the fundamental philosophy behind the game is wrong, and he's going to start a project with different priorities.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:01:59 pm by Mfbrew »
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izzyryu

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2010, 12:26:43 pm »

The goblin camp guy just deserves a bit of flaming for his choice of words about not liking "the direction DF has been going" when it's clear he never understood DF to begin with.
Because clearly, DF is perfect in every way and anyone who has a differing opinion is just stupid.

Newsflash to fanboys: There is nothing wrong with disliking an aspect of a game. Yes, even if that person dislikes an aspect of a game that you really, really like. Taking the concept of DF in a different direction does not mean that Aryon (or whoever) is somehow unworthy of the pure Dwarf Fortress experience. Guys, he's not trying to get any "point" of DF with his game, he's trying to do something that's not DF. There's no "point" except his own goals for his own game.

And believe it or not, there's nothing wrong with that. Aryon's (or Impaler's, for that matter) game will not magically erase every copy of DF in existence. DF will still be just as good regardless of the competition, if not better. Toady's doing just fine without a horde of crusading defenders rushing to strike down the competition. And if these new games are really the poor imitators some of you say they are, then you have nothing to worry about. The games will be crap, they'll disappear, and DF will still be around. But if they're good, hey, now I have even more fun games to play. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

BURN HIM!

Mutilate the corpses!
A few other things as well...
Therefore, regarding the rage he is getting... He was asking for it.
...You're kidding, right? Please tell me this is just a terrible attempt at sarcasm. Because Jesus.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:32:27 pm by izzyryu »
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FatedTemp

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2010, 12:44:20 pm »

This should probably have gone in the "Other Games" sub-forum shouldn't it?

Anyway I really don't get all the hate for this; so the guy's making a game similar to dwarf fort in some aspects, why is that a problem? I've got a whole bunch of city builder type games, I don't get angry because someone is making another and if it's good I might buy that one too.

Also from what he's said it seems like it's going to be quite different from DF so it isn't really a clone so much as a similar base with different frills. After all DF has all that crazy procedurally generated stuff and adventure/legends modes. Whereas Goblin Camp looks like it's going to be more of a traditional fort builder game, like Stronghold.

Both Goblin Camp and Khazad (if it's still called that) are just games; you don't have to play them, once they're released, unless you want to. Also there's nothing wrong with having some similar features. In the end isn't the fact that these two guys liked the idea of DF enough to think they want to create similar games, that are more tailored to their desires, a compliment?

Personally I'll be following both of those games and Dwarf Fortress, and I hope they all work out.
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Mfbrew

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2010, 01:04:16 pm »

Izzy, I think you're missing the point here-

Most of us are looking forward to trying Goblin Camp and hope that it's fun.  And it'd be hard not to admit that DF would benefit from some of those UI improvements.

What people take issue with is the way Aryon is flamebaiting DF fans.  His marketing (if we're going to call it that - the game is likely to be freeware) is decidedly anti-DF, pandering to this "hurrr DF is too hard and complex, Toady needs to make his games consoletard-friendly" mentality that riles up the smart guys.
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systema

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Re: Goblin camp
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2010, 01:04:38 pm »

May the better game win.  Just because Italy won the world cup in 2006 doesn't mean they'll win in 2010.   Good games come and go, if a roguelike similar to DF pops up within a year and its better than DF, well then I'll play it.  Competition produces innovation and innovation produces success.
If you're going to circle the wagons because someone tweeted a youtube vid he didn't think would become noticed that happens to have a feature DF couldn't replicate for years, then you're probably going to spend alot of your time bad mouthing people on these forums in the name of your lord god toady.

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