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Author Topic: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps  (Read 133706 times)

denito

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2010, 10:19:11 pm »

Oh just thought of two things:  if the water turns to obsidian faster than the magma can go past it, perhaps we should use constructed walls under the tabs to keep the water out in a ring.  Second, couldn't you make the piston narrow as it goes up, so that it is less digging to get to the top?

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     XX XX
     XX XX
     XX XX
    XXX XXX
    XX X XX
    XX X XX
    XX X XX
   XX XXX XX
   XX XXX XX
 XX  XXXXX  XX
XX  XXXXXXX  XX
XX           XX
X~~~C     C~~~XX
XXX=========XXXX
  X         X
  X~~~~~~~~~X
  X~~MAGMA~~X
  X~~~~~~~~~X
 
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Sizik

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2010, 11:53:57 pm »

I'm pretty sure that the entire column disappears instantly, as cave-ins happen instantly.
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Fenwah

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2010, 11:55:47 am »

OK time for an update

I've already looked into and tested using a floor to hold the piston up, but sizik is correct, the whole thing vanishes instantly, so as far as i can tell directly dropping one of these in the magma sea will destroy it. Also tapering the piston wouldn't work very well, because any magma tile that has natural rock falling on it will be displaced directly upwards. If the piston is tapered then the magma will cover it and flow all over the place.

I have a full scale resetable one in the works which will pump a 11x6x3 cube up ~150 z levels. Digging was surprisingly easy and was done in about a year and a half with 2 miners, in addition to time spent getting the rest of the fortress started. I've learned it is far, far easier to mine rather than channel, and then drop a ring of constructed floor from the top to break though all the floors and give you a shaft. This way you dont have channelling accidents and you can designate all the digging at once. Just designate one tile by clicking and holding the mouse and move up/down the z levels to designate a column to be mined, then do it for the whole shaft. Takes about 5 - 10 minutes to set the whole thing up, then leave your miners to it. It was far easier to dig a 150 level shaft using this method than a 20 level one using channeling. All thats left to finish is completing the 3 required pumps (no iron on my map and i have only gathered enough for 2 pumps) that will fill the cistern from the magma sea, and building the obsidian caster that will make it repeatable. This is just going to be a drawbridge dropping water on the top of the magma to rebuid the piston. Ill post results and maybe post the map or a video somewhere if i can figure out how.

I just have 2 questions to help me build the obsidian caster:
  • Is there any way to build a wall that will not support the piston? I've tried doors and raised bridges but they need floors underneath them.
  • Does water fall directkly downwards if dropped from something like a bridge, or will it spread out to the sides a bit? If it spreads the obsidian will fall and break the hatches and all the magma will leak away
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bdog

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2010, 06:12:22 pm »

  • Is there any way to build a wall that will not support the piston? I've tried doors and raised bridges but they need floors underneath them.

Maybe something like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just an idea - no bridges, no hatch covers, just rough rocks! (and maybe pumps ^^, )
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monk12

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2010, 10:28:31 pm »

This thread is relevant to my interests.

Shinziril

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2010, 11:39:38 pm »

Another note: the magma doesn't need room on the sides to "flow upwards", it is simply magically displaced directly upwards of whatever rock just fell into it.  I found this out through testing in arena mode (specifically, I attempted to drop a U-shaped "cup" into fluid as an experimental diving bell, and was highly disappointed when this simply resulted in a mug full of magma.  Of course, the phrase "mug full of magma" might give you ideas . . .).
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Noble Digger

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2010, 02:04:59 am »

Another note: the magma doesn't need room on the sides to "flow upwards", it is simply magically displaced directly upwards of whatever rock just fell into it.  I found this out through testing in arena mode (specifically, I attempted to drop a U-shaped "cup" into fluid as an experimental diving bell, and was highly disappointed when this simply resulted in a mug full of magma.  Of course, the phrase "mug full of magma" might give you ideas . . .).

This man is correct and the same is true with water. I've had liquid water up on the 3rd and 4th levels up after controlled collapse to drop bricks into the cave rivers. Water could not POSSIBLY end up some of the places it does.
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Cheshire Cat

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2010, 06:29:55 am »

this idea is great.

ive made puzzle like terrain that involves dropping big blocks into water to create passages and stairs and the like, and ive even flooded my forges and toasted my dwarves and cloth stockpile once when i accidentally caused a big chunk of stone to fall and fill in my channelled out magma lake, but i never thought of this sort of thing as being useful for transporting fluids around the place.
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Neyvn

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2010, 07:12:01 am »

AN ACTUAL ERUPTING VOLCANO!!!!!!!!


//need I say more//
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Dorten

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010, 11:42:40 pm »

Another note: the magma doesn't need room on the sides to "flow upwards", it is simply magically displaced directly upwards of whatever rock just fell into it.  I found this out through testing in arena mode (specifically, I attempted to drop a U-shaped "cup" into fluid as an experimental diving bell, and was highly disappointed when this simply resulted in a mug full of magma.  Of course, the phrase "mug full of magma" might give you ideas . . .).

So it's like this?

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# #   # #      #       #
# ##### #      # ~   ~ #
# ##### #      # ~~~~~ #
# ##### #  ->  # #~~~# #
# ##### #      # ##### #
# ##### #      # ##### #
                 ##### 
~~~~~~~~~      ~~#####~~
~~~~~~~~~      ~~#####~~

Then we don't really need a catcher...
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NieXS

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2010, 12:00:50 am »

It will spill some though.
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Fenwah

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2010, 01:27:12 am »

Success! I've finally finished the prototype repeatable version and run it through a complete cycle. I now have magma forges running in my fortess and the pump is fully reset (Ive only done one cycle because I dont know what I am gonna do with more magma yet. I guess I'll make something for my 50+ goblin prisoners). Its taken far longer than I would have liked due to iron shortages (for the 7 pumps used to fill the cistern and empty the magma from the top), water shortages, several redesigns of the caster due to a few unexpected quirks, and the usual fortress dramas. I'm hoping the knowledge gained will cut down the time to build one of these things significantly. I'll post more details later when i can be bothered.

P.S. the mug thing is a good idea for a one shot device if you can't be bothered with the 30ish magma proof hatches, but a repeatable one needs to have a flat top and a catcher
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Ralp

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2010, 02:05:54 am »

Iron scarcity is pretty rough, but if you have any sand you know you can pump magma with green glass corkscrews.  You can even make the tube and blocks from glass.  Hope this helps... really cool thread topic.
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melomel

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2010, 03:17:52 am »

I am intrigued and wish to know more.  This is also relevant to my interests.
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Firnagzen

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Re: Method for transporting magma up z-levels without pumps
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2010, 08:01:57 am »

Success! I've finally finished the prototype repeatable version and run it through a complete cycle. I now have magma forges running in my fortess and the pump is fully reset (Ive only done one cycle because I dont know what I am gonna do with more magma yet. I guess I'll make something for my 50+ goblin prisoners). Its taken far longer than I would have liked due to iron shortages (for the 7 pumps used to fill the cistern and empty the magma from the top), water shortages, several redesigns of the caster due to a few unexpected quirks, and the usual fortress dramas. I'm hoping the knowledge gained will cut down the time to build one of these things significantly. I'll post more details later when i can be bothered.

Any chance of uploading the map to DFMA so we can see the design?
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