Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Xombie]

quote:perhaps organizing the building placement better

The way i see it in future...

Urban architecture:
1)City has a main street, smaller streets connected to it.
2)Buildings organized in blocks.
3)Shops closer to city center, houses closer to perimeter.
4)Each willage and town shouln`t contain each and every kind of shop. Big cities has everything, perhaps 2 of same shop.
5)Actual difference in size.

Design improvements:
1)Well. useful to drink or fill waterskin.
2)Fountain. in larger cities. same use. size is 2x2 or 3x3.
3)Statue. can be generated to depict some world gen events. like victory in war, death of someone heroic or member of royal family, megabeast defeat etc. details written on it.
4)Square. meeting area and city center. statues and/or fountains here.
5)Marketplace. used like trade depots. (when caravan arc implemented, i think.)
6)Graveyard. dead historical figures buried here(if anyone left to do it). placed far from everything and connected by road.
N)More interesting castle design.

code:

  █■■■■■■■■■■■▌
  ▌..........>▌
  ▌...........▌
  ▌...........▌
  █■■■..■..■■■▌
█■▌...........█■▌Ω.....Ω
▌<...■.....■....▌.......
▌...............▌■......
▌╘......................
▌...............▌■.....
▌<...■.....■....▌.......
█■▌...........█■▌Ω.....Ω
  █■■■..■..■■■▌
  ▌...........▌
  ▌...........▌
  ▌..........>▌
  █■■■■■■■■■■■▌

[Krash]

All these are great ideas.  

Id like to see moats and walls (as well as other kinds of defences) that reflect the resources, defensive needs and general mindsets of the populaces that build them.  A warlike civ threathened by goblins would put a lot of effort into protection, while a relatively safe civ would not.  Rich cities could afford extensive fortifications, while poor/small ones whould have to settle for maybe just a barricade with a ditch or a simple stone wall.

It would be great also to see how old a ruined city by it's state of disrepair.

And while I'm at it; rivers coursing through cities (people like running water for trade) would be nice, with bridges and all.  Perhaps a port if the city is next to the sea or a larger waterway.

Unfortunately, as fun as this sounds, it feels like this might take a while to implement.

[Neonivek]

quote: 4)Each willage and town shouln`t contain each and every kind of shop. Big cities has everything, perhaps 2 of same shop

While I do agree this is realistic... however shops are a HUGE pain as it is without needing to filter through every town just for the chance that the proper shop would be there.

Each shop also carries such a few number of items that I often find myself going around the world for a high quality set of armor and still don't find enough items for the set.

[Normandy]

There seriously needs to be an 'ask around' option to find out what is where and, in the case of shops, what they sell (including specific items, if you're lucky). And custom order shops (DF has far too modern of an economic system, which is based off of a middle class. In the medieval period, chances are you got your armor by ordering it from the armorer and waiting a while, rather than waltzing on into the neighborhood store and seeing if there was any in stock).

One question is how would this apply to dwarven/goblin/elven cities? Would they follow the same rules of urban design?

[Mel_Vixen]

Hmm i dont think a city should look planned. I dont know exactly how you build you citys in The US but here in old Europe a city has grown within a long time and was sometimes realy Chaotic. Most citys here have one or two mayor marketplaces (huge unbuild places not Walmart) and dozen of wells scatteret over the entire city.

On the other hand for a Dwarfen Overground civ with a well planed city would be awesome.

[ June 04, 2008: Message edited by: Heph ]

[Puzzlemaker]

In the US there are a lot of planned cities, all spread out nice and neat.

London: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=london&ie=UTF8&ll=51.504255,-0.119991&spn=0.058341,0.188141&z=13&iwloc=addr

New York: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=new+york&ie=UTF8&ll=40.711484,-73.942451&spn=0.071045,0.188141&z=13&iwloc=addr

Big difference, no?

[Xombie]

quote:Originally posted by Heph:
Hmm i dont think a city should look planned. I dont know exactly how you build you citys in The US but here in old Europe a city has grown within a long time and was sometimes realy Chaotic.

I've seen europe. Even in "chaotic" city you can see streets, and houses along the streets facing same direction. It's not just randomly placed buildins around. Im not saying all towns must look like NY(well is't not bad actually), just look like a town.

quote:Originally posted by Neonivek:
and still don't find enough items for the set

Ever played Diablo2? Why would you find everything you want? I don't think it's fun to play if you know that all the best items are guaranteed and expecting you. Actually it ruins the fun of finding right item.
And afaik even now worldgen item quality is random, so you never can say if right item is generated. Even with shops everywhere.

About finding shops: Easy. Just visit capital. Perhaps there will be more than one. Other than that mass armor production for every willage is unrealistic.

quote:Originally posted by Normandy:
One question is how would this apply to dwarven/goblin/elven cities? Would they follow the same rules of urban design?

Each civ has it's own style.

Dwarven dungeons - i think they should be organised and planned. maybe even more then human. with all the objects.

Goblins - they got quite fine fortresses. And there only 2-3 buildings on each site, so there is not much to plan. But i think they should be organised in some composition and even connected with walls and may have some decorative objects. Pikes with skulls on them, statues of goblins etc.

Elves - i'd leave them alone with their little wooden chaos.

[ June 05, 2008: Message edited by: Xombie ]

[Neonivek]

quote: Ever played Diablo2? Why would you find everything you want? I don't think it's fun to play if you know that all the best items are guaranteed and expecting you. Actually it ruins the fun of finding right item

Actually in Diablo 2 your very likely to get full sets of armor including that just by playing the game even if you don't find a set you will at least find rather great weapons and armor. Unfortunately for your example I actually played that game.

Anyhow the problem with what you stated is that there is no reasonable source of good armor for humans and elves in the game. Shops are the only method of collecting high quality armor other then that I can only fathom that killing kings COULD get you high quality sets... though frankly if that is the only way then there are some problems.

There are no Bosses, monsters, or gods that give you armor.

So as a better example

Imagine playing Diablo 2 where you couldn't get any Socket, Magic, or unique objects and THAT is exactly what Dwarf Fortress feels like most of the time.

Now THAT was the example you should have done  

[mickel]

Planned cities typically appear in colonies, and organic (what an above poster called chaotic) cities in older, more established regions. Add to that cultural values. Real life human cities look the way they do because we humans innately love structure and symmetry. If you look at a city that has grown rather than been planned, you'll see that they, too, follow very exact patterns.

What does that mean for human cities in Dwarf Fortress? I'm not sure, but it stands to reason shops in them would provide for every need in that community. You'll not likely see a shipwright's shop far inland.

[umiman]

While I find planned cities to be completely sterile and mundane in nature, much like Singapore in contrast to Hong Kong or Parisian countryside versus American suburbs, it would be nice if the towns and cities in Dwarf Fortress were more interesting. All those are good ideas.

As it is, towns and cities all look like giant Lego blocks dotting flat landscapes.

I think more emphasis should be put on making mountainhomes navigate-able first though. Same with goblin fortresses and Elven retreats.

[Xombie]

quote:Originally posted by Neonivek:
<STRONG>
Imagine playing Diablo 2 where you couldn't get any Socket, Magic, or unique objects and THAT is exactly what Dwarf Fortress feels like most of the time.
</STRONG>

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the game here. Reasons why you feel that bad about unability to find items you want is somewhere inside you. Items really not that important. I played unarmored wrestler, who managed to strangle more than 100 goblins, and that's was fun.
/offtopic