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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 983699 times)

G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #990 on: August 26, 2010, 11:57:34 am »

People forget that one of the most major issues elves don't win battles is because the game, to my knowledge, treats a battle like a series of duels.

You know how, in bad action movies, when twelve mooks fight the good guy, they do it one at a time? That's what elves (and really everyone) ends up doing. Strength in numbers doesn't really exist.
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Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #991 on: August 26, 2010, 12:23:00 pm »

Except for lucky hits.
Having 10:1 numerical advantage will give 10x the chance of 'rolling a natural 20'. . . ofcourse, this won't really help if your average dude will not even get a chance to strike at the big demon of death, cookies and hentai.  :-X

edit, @ kohaku:
About player defined buildings, I suggest looking at Aegidian's Oolite and how it allows players to create expansionpacks.
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« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 12:40:15 pm by Areyar »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #992 on: August 26, 2010, 12:50:18 pm »

People forget that one of the most major issues elves don't win battles is because the game, to my knowledge, treats a battle like a series of duels.

You know how, in bad action movies, when twelve mooks fight the good guy, they do it one at a time? That's what elves (and really everyone) ends up doing. Strength in numbers doesn't really exist.

Mook Chivalry.  (You're welcome.)

They actually face a far greater threat to their survival as a species, however, and that is planned infertility - all marriages are for life, and all marriages can only have 10 children.  Once a wedded pair have had this pre-set limit of children, they will never again reproduce, and for that matter, probably won't change their jobs if they have a cushy, safe job, while letting all their children get drafted into the risky jobs, like the military, as soon as they hit the age of majority because in a society of immortals, all the safe jobs were taken by the first generation.

Hence, any elven civ that gets in a war early tends to kill off all the fertile pairs of elves, while the infertile older pairs do nothing with their lives for all eternity, ensuring that their entire race becomes infertile, and they just sit around the forest waiting for someone to bother to finish them off, burn down their forest, and replace and forget the elves.

There needs to be some sort of sanity check on this planned infertility system so that the elves don't kill themselves by treating their fertile civ members as more expendable than their infertile members when they are participating in a genocidal war. 

(This is also related to why goblin civs tend to be filled with non-goblin races - all the goblins go infertile, but unlike elves, they can at least replace some of their numbers through stealing new babies to send up against their enemies.  Ironically, this is most effective when snatching from fairly successful elven cultures that haven't been at war too much, so they have babies to snatch - elves in goblin equipment tend to be very formidable.)

In fact, considering what thread I'm in, I should probably ask...
Are there any plans to fix/plant a sanity check on the elven society-wide infertility problem?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 07:01:36 pm by NW_Kohaku »
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #993 on: August 26, 2010, 01:04:03 pm »

For that matter: When are we going to see difference marriage customs come into play? I don't really see goblins as the marriage sort, and human civs could easily include polygamy and the like. Kings with a harem of a thousand, perhaps? There are certainly some interesting Adventurer quests to be had with that kind of set-up. Elves seem like the sort to bond with one person for a while and eventually move on to someone else. You know, after a few centuries and the relationship has run its course.
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Huesoo

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #994 on: August 26, 2010, 03:23:49 pm »

For evil civs is there going to be a tag that allows them to commit cannabalism?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #995 on: August 26, 2010, 04:32:40 pm »

For evil civs is there going to be a tag that allows them to commit cannabalism?

There are already tags to handle that in the ETHICS section of the raws. Goblins currently have it set as a PERSONAL_MATTER, so I imagine they do eat people occasionally.
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lagging savant

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #996 on: August 26, 2010, 04:52:56 pm »

I'm pretty much a lurker... but I have to post when I am passionate about something.

I read on the front page that story about how that demon took over and committed elfacide of 7,000. The whole tone of what you were writing about seemed like that is a bad thing.

That is cool. Please don't change that. Our history is pretty much riddled with this kind of story and is even happening now.

That leads into so many story lines with your dwarves. You might not like the genocide and will try to stop it... you could maybe have your dwarves try to team up with the demons and further the carnage or prey on both sides after a battle, or come in and claim what was left behind. Perhaps enslaving those that got away and have come back to rebuild.
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MaDeR Levap

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #997 on: August 26, 2010, 05:14:17 pm »

I read on the front page that story about how that demon took over and committed elfacide of 7,000. The whole tone of what you were writing about seemed like that is a bad thing.
Well, it is supposed to be demon (thus 7k kills). but to get kills, demon must deserve it. Player should think on sight of 7k kill demon "oh God Armok me, I am screwed". Problem? Many battles with killer (in worldgen) megabeasts and other monsters are quite anticlimatic.
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Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #998 on: August 26, 2010, 06:43:59 pm »

@kohaku: you got that backwards. :P
I think you wanted to say infertiles are expendable, not the fertile elves.
Either that or your sanity check needs to check for LIVING_offspring<10 && hasMate for is fertile.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #999 on: August 26, 2010, 07:01:06 pm »

Mmm... maybe I left it a little unclear, but I was saying that they would be killing themselves if they "treat their fertile civ members as more expendable than their infertile members".

I'll do a quick edit, then...
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DalGren

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1000 on: August 26, 2010, 08:16:08 pm »

Seeing those nifty farming spots under development right now, I wonder... will villagers have a sense of property not limited only to "inventory" elements? I mean, if we are given certain capabilities in adventurer mode to create structures, someone has to get angry if you build an annex building next to an owned building. As for that matter, building on someone's private property or destroying part of it should also cause some effect.So, will world entities have the capability to claim ownership over a structure or territory, and use that information to identify trespassers or have a sense of "home" which they can defend or use as a trading good?
I am not asking for realistic property laws and stuff, but more if the world population has or will have a sense of housing and territory property? Will it be forbidden to build around temples, graveyards (will they actually exist) if they have a living owner?
Such a system would allow stuff like a game entity recognizing and acting against trespassers or someone building a gateway to HFS on their lawn...which can come in handy for thievery and stuff. (and bring in farmer/villager disputes about territory? now that'd be realism)

Also related to this.Would it be possible to find isolated huts or cabins of some world entity living on its own? Perhaps outcasts, hermits, or sociopaths who refuse living in populated areas?
The reasoning about this is that such characters are actually very common in fantasy lore, who live isolated for whatever social or spiritual reason.

This can also lead to possible differing town mechanics. Instead of getting inside any home at random to find no resistance, find people more intolerant to trespassers, perhaps to the point of getting aggressive if they return and find you there (which would require thievery to very more organized, observing the patters of the person to ensure they are not at home when you want to steal some goods). Also that same mechanic can allow guards to perform their duty on their master's territory. The policies and behaviors involved can be the very same used to determinate the entity's personality: less social types would be more lenient to a "no trespassers (or we release the hounds)" policy, while the more open ones would not care much and differ little from the current mechanics.
Also with that we can find more locked doors and stuff to make adventuring as a thief more interesting.

The isolated entities might have importance as having better knowledge to share about the area, what kind of entities roam the area...and might be referenced by a person from the same group such as "the old man living in the mountains might have some information on that", or be extraordinary blacksmiths, teachers... perhaps the lonely old widow living in the forest might be referenced as a witch...that kind of stuff.
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monk12

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1001 on: August 26, 2010, 10:28:13 pm »

In the spirit of the world gen wars discussion,

How do you plan to change how world gen battles are fought? Will terrain and/or tactics play a role? Will civs, or even just races that are faced with a war of extinction that they cannot win attempt to flee and establish new cities elsewhere?

Areyar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1002 on: August 27, 2010, 09:13:26 am »

I assume in worldgen (and later possably as well) marauding armies that are at war will simply burn any villages they encounter and kill (or chase off) any villagers?
It would be cool to find burnt villages and city ruins.

Currently IIRC abandoned sites are just empty, not ruined or anything. With your focus on adventure-mode and sites, will actual ruins be viable sites for adventures soon?
Cycles of decay similar to erosion could degrade abandoned sites over the years.

How far down the pipeline are worldgen battles with actual AI tactics that can be viewed afterwards in histories like a movie of a classical board and chips wargame?
Participating in (or precipitating) a war in adventure mode would also be awesome.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 09:16:38 am by Areyar »
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Huesoo

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1003 on: August 27, 2010, 02:52:36 pm »

For evil civs is there going to be a tag that allows them to commit cannabalism?

There are already tags to handle that in the ETHICS section of the raws. Goblins currently have it set as a PERSONAL_MATTER, so I imagine they do eat people occasionally.

I was talking about being able to take that tag then add it to your dwarves so they can eat eachother if things are desperate.
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nil

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #1004 on: August 27, 2010, 04:06:22 pm »

Currently IIRC abandoned sites are just empty, not ruined or anything. With your focus on adventure-mode and sites, will actual ruins be viable sites for adventures soon?
Cycles of decay similar to erosion could degrade abandoned sites over the years.
Also, sites abandoned in worldgen will already have furniture at least mostly removed and random walls destroyed.
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