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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 983719 times)

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #945 on: August 22, 2010, 10:13:31 am »

The part of this intrigues me is not the increased level of bureaucracy, but what this could mean for court intrigues. After all, how can you manage your kingdom when your ministers and officials are all plotting to stab each other (and the king) in the back? This would relate, of course, to in-fort factions, cults, and whatever.

By and large, yes, that's what I like about it, too.

Nothing like having more personal spies in the king's court than there are spies working for the king.  In Total War, I liked having absurd numbers of spies and assassins everywhere.  I'd go out an order assassinations not for any particular gain, but just to train my assassins to be better.  In Medieval: Total War, I got my war-mongering cardinal to be pope by simply assassinating everyone who was high enough rank to challenge his ascendance, and then having him excommunicate all the nations that got pissed at me for killing their cardinals.

*ahem* BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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rex mortis

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #946 on: August 22, 2010, 03:22:12 pm »

Will there eventually be automatically generated embark profiles relative to the current world situation? Refugees from a border town that got sacked by goblins, royally funded military expansion, pilgrims on a missing to construct a shrine at a perceived holy site etc. Dwarves with appropriate skills assigned, preset goods. Just so when I find a nice location I don't have to spend another half an hour fiddling with my embark. As an added benefit one's initial dwarves would not be taken out of thin air but have an established place in the world. One might even receive highly skilled individuals same as current immigrants.
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Because death is peaceful and magma is lovely.

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #947 on: August 22, 2010, 03:25:21 pm »

Will there eventually be automatically generated embark profiles relative to the current world situation? Refugees from a border town that got sacked by goblins, royally funded military expansion, pilgrims on a missing to construct a shrine at a perceived holy site etc. Dwarves with appropriate skills assigned, preset goods. Just so when I find a nice location I don't have to spend another half an hour fiddling with my embark. As an added benefit one's initial dwarves would not be taken out of thin air but have an established place in the world. One might even receive highly skilled individuals same as current immigrants.

This is covered on the dev page:

Quote
Fortress Starting Scenarios

    * Starting scenarios giving a back story for your fortress, often related to current world situation
          o Reclaim mechanics should be folded into this
    * Ability to bring extra dwarves along depending on scenario
    * Entity populations surrounding your fortress in appropriate environments, both above and below ground
    * Ability to move dwarves in and out of surroundings
    * Relationship with surrounding dwarves
    * Ability to trade/demand food in depot or similar place with surrounding dwarves
    * Changes to caravans/diplomatic relationships based on starting scenario
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Rose

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #948 on: August 22, 2010, 10:53:56 pm »

Toady, are there any plans on making the other races playable, and different, anytime soon?

I like playing as humans, but they're really just tall dwarves, at the moment.
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Rockphed

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #949 on: August 22, 2010, 11:16:36 pm »

Yay!  I await the coming of full on villages to pillage.
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Only vaguely. Made of the same substance and put to the same use, but a bit like comparing a castle and a doublewide trailer.

tfaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #950 on: August 23, 2010, 12:31:45 am »

Toady, are there any plans on making the other races playable, and different, anytime soon?

I like playing as humans, but they're really just tall dwarves, at the moment.
I can't seem to find the quote, but Toady has said there are no such plans at the moment. With a few exceptions like adventurer medical skills and plant gathering, the Dev page encompasses "anytime soon".
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 09:01:54 am by tfaal »
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I still think that the whole fortress should be flooded with magma the moment you try dividing by zero.
This could be a handy way of teaching preschool children mathematics.

James.Denholm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #951 on: August 23, 2010, 04:29:33 am »

I don't get it. 7000 kills for one demon leader sounds perfectly reasonable.

He's a freakin' demon!
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Josephus

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #952 on: August 23, 2010, 05:07:03 am »

It helps if they spawn with crossbows, of course.
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Tormy

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #953 on: August 23, 2010, 06:45:30 am »

I don't get it. 7000 kills for one demon leader sounds perfectly reasonable.

He's a freakin' demon!

Agreed. :P
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tfaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #954 on: August 23, 2010, 10:10:03 am »

Hey Toady, I was wondering, how are the larger towns going to be handled this release? Will they just be a bunch of scrambled together cottages and shops, or can we expect a bit more structure?
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I still think that the whole fortress should be flooded with magma the moment you try dividing by zero.
This could be a handy way of teaching preschool children mathematics.

Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #955 on: August 23, 2010, 05:10:33 pm »

I don't get it. 7000 kills for one demon leader sounds perfectly reasonable.

He's a freakin' demon!

Agreed. :P
He's not just any demon either, he's a leader of a civilization and allegedly the God of Misery. It makes sense that he would indulge in some glorious slaughter from time to time.
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Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #956 on: August 23, 2010, 05:20:14 pm »

Toady, are there any plans on making the other races playable, and different, anytime soon?

I like playing as humans, but they're really just tall dwarves, at the moment.

Playable, yes. Soon, no.
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telkoth

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #957 on: August 24, 2010, 12:40:47 am »

http://mu.ranter.net/design-theory/food-basis/everything-starts-with-grain

^ reading over the last few pages of this thread, this article (and those following it) I read a while ago came to my mind.  they talk in detail about why fantasy worlds with fantasy-sized kingdoms and battles don't work so well in reality, but also how things can be stretched to try and get there (P.S. magic helps).  it doesn't address all the concerns here directly, but I think may at least inspire some interesting/useful discussion.  they also talk about some cool things, like why europe had knights and asia didn't so much... all kinds of cool stuff.

[edit] ah, and here was the bit specifically about how goblin societies might function as they do in fantasy worlds (randomly attacking people, being available in large numbers for adventurers to kill, etc): http://mu.ranter.net/design-theory/food-basis/monsters-and-food
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 12:54:11 am by telkoth »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #958 on: August 24, 2010, 02:22:31 am »

Lovely reading, Telkoth, and I agree with plenty of it...

Except for hunter-gatherers not having as much free time as farming cultures - the reverse is actually true, as hunter-gatherers actually spent less than half as much time obtaining food as farming cultures did.  Hunter-gatherers actually spent most of their time on leisure, since they largely just relied upon simply using whatever was at hand to solve their problems rather than having to organize or work... it's just that they faced the problem that drought or famine would occasionally come and kill off all the young, weak, and elderly because not enough food would be on hand.

The reason that hunter-gatherers really lose to farmers, however, is that farmers are simply more populous than hunter-gatherers.  It's thankless, back-breaking labor, but even wooden-plow-using farmers who could hardly harvest enough to feed their own families, much less export grain could cram orders of magnitude more people into a society than hunter-gatherers, who necessarily kept to groups of a few dozen when stationary, or a clan of a couple hundred when chasing some herd animal, and living nomadically.  (The guy Telkoth links to basically says 180 farmers fit in 3 square miles, while no more than 2 hunter gatherers can fit in a square mile... that's a ratio of 30 to 1 in favor of farmers, even if only 3 of those 30 farmers can be in the standing army, or even anything but a farmer.)  And that larger concentration meant standing armies.  Hunter-gatherers could be a serious threat... but again, like the Mongols, that only happened when those hunter-gatherers were forced out of their lands by starvation, or they were forced to defend their lands for their own survival.  Things like raising standing armies that could conquer neighboring lands just didn't happen without a serious food supply.


edit:  As a total aside, the last bit actually made me think about something with regards to my previous statements about goblin chicken/pig ranching... farming something cold-blooded, especially insects, (although lizards or amphibians would also help,) would make for a far more efficient source of food per acre than chickens or pigs would, as they don't spend nearly as much energy just keeping themselves warm, and as such stretch the grazable land out to be able to support a greater population.

... Of course, a long-range "cattle herd" of insects might be an extremely odd thing to go herding.  I'd imagine it be like "herding" a swarm of locusts across the land, and that's IF they can fly. (Flying increases caloric needs, but drastically significantly mobility, as well, especially for such small creatures.)

It might be possible to have some sort of mixed method of ranching, however - having long-range cattle drives over grazing land, and having the muck farms feeding an insect population for long-term food storage purposes.  Plus, if those insects are purring maggots, they can be farmed for some lovely Dwarven Cheese!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 02:34:29 am by NW_Kohaku »
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

Aravin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #959 on: August 24, 2010, 04:09:15 am »

AFAIK when the new core(s) is(are) implemented, the older saves won't be compatible anymore. Is it true? The bugs should end someday (so the bugfixes won't be needed), and then new cores will be added. Is there no way to add new cores and make saves compatible?
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