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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 877621 times)

Scarpa

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2340 on: December 01, 2010, 05:19:49 pm »

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high if I were you; the next release involves a major change to the architecture of the game, so it's probably gonna have the bare minimum of features required to lay the groundwork for future development, while allowing the community to help iron out the (likely numerous) bugs.

What is this architecture change you are talking about?

Caravan stuff. Instead of villagers and their villages being placeholders that are frozen in time after world gen ends they will be producing their own stuff, consuming their own stuff, running active trade and industry. Also caravans will now bring actual things from the world at large and not from some magic bucket of 'stuff'. Additionally items will have elastic value related to scarcity, etc.

Read this: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72115.0
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2341 on: December 01, 2010, 05:22:10 pm »

Not scarcity, but supply and demand.
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Jiri Petru

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2342 on: December 01, 2010, 05:25:49 pm »

With the coming of the caravan arc, will there be any feature that fully utilizes the world-gen time? I mean, will there be something that makes year 900 really different from year 300? I can imagine the trade routes will take some years to develop, then small markets would start popping up, then small fairs, which over the course of hundreds of years could develop into huge cities, making the late-gen worlds pretty unique. But right now, the only difference between year 1000 and year 100 seems to be the number of dead people in the legends mode.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2343 on: December 01, 2010, 05:26:16 pm »

What is this architecture change you are talking about?

He means the game's code structure, not literal architecture.  Specifically, caravan/trading stuff is getting revamped, as described here.

I wonder if plant extracts like these will also get other uses beside cooking?

Like Olive Oil.

Actually...



Since we're getting some new plant extracts, will the jobs these extra be used for extend to just beyond cooking with these release, or ever?
Olive oil comes to mine, as a plant product that has multiple uses from cooking to cleaning.


As it said in the Bay 12 report:

Quote from: ThreeToe
New underground plants will be pressed for oil used for cooking and soap.
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Mel_Vixen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2344 on: December 01, 2010, 07:11:09 pm »

I hope oil is flammable and can be dumped onto invaders ;). Pottery sounds cool too. Finally some good use for all the clay and loam layers.  That begs a multiple questions:

Does "Pottery" include bricks and other uses as Building material (like filling for timber-frames)? What about Pipes? Also how many pottery items per wood-log, if they get fired in the kiln, can we expect? Are fruit trees in for this release?

I think if we ever get a decent pipe-based plumbing, say for irrigation, it would be a bit pointless if we get one ceramic-pipe for one wood-log. The romans(?) had these nice Mass-killns to burn 100 Amphoras in one firing. How about ceramic tiles as (wall-) decoration?

Sheep etc. are nice too. Finally the humans have a independent source for non-leather cloth. Chicken and turkeys are great too. Finally we have meat that tastes like alligator.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2345 on: December 01, 2010, 07:17:50 pm »

Pipes, aren't even on the Dev notes. As Toady has remarked there are numerous issues that arent that easy to solve.
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Dante

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2346 on: December 01, 2010, 07:31:49 pm »

Just happened to start browsing the forums and noticed the December Report went up a few minutes ago.

Quote
New underground plants will be pressed for oil used for cooking and soap.


That's cool, I don't think we've had any new plants in a long time. Unless you count the underground fungitrees, I guess.

If the oil stuff makes it out into the reaction raws like soap did, I will be delighted, because it means we'll finally be able to use liquids as reagents.

Captain Mayday

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2347 on: December 01, 2010, 09:39:32 pm »

Did you see this comment in the dwarf raws?

Quote
The seven numbers afterward give a distribution of ranges.  Each interval has an equal chance of occurring.

The wiki page on probability distributions may be illuminating.

In your example, [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_CHEEKBONES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200], this means that the following intervals are equally likely "buckets" for the modifier to fall into: 0-70, 70-90, 90-100, etc.  Since the intervals near the average (100) are smaller (only spanning 10 rather than 20 or 70) but still equally likely, most of the creatures will be closer to the average than to the extremes.

I saw that note, yeah. And I'm familiar with standard deviations for a normal distribution on a bell curve. But on a bell curve, the steps are not equally likely to occur. If it were just a modified bell curve, I'd not be so perplexed. I suppose what I'm trying to do here is to achieve a better understanding of the effects of the values, and how the game deals with them, so I can use that more effectively.
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Quatch

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2348 on: December 01, 2010, 10:34:53 pm »

How will clay be gathered for pottery production? Are we looking at the sand style ordering a patch of ground, or will clay soil now drop rock-like objects?

Is that refresh of sand gathering also coming now as a result?

How far into pottery did you go? Glazes, bisque firing vs glaze firing, high fire ware being water tight, porcelain vs stoneware vs terracotta?
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Sizik

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2349 on: December 02, 2010, 12:20:25 am »

Did you see this comment in the dwarf raws?

Quote
The seven numbers afterward give a distribution of ranges.  Each interval has an equal chance of occurring.

The wiki page on probability distributions may be illuminating.

In your example, [BP_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HIGH_CHEEKBONES:0:70:90:100:110:130:200], this means that the following intervals are equally likely "buckets" for the modifier to fall into: 0-70, 70-90, 90-100, etc.  Since the intervals near the average (100) are smaller (only spanning 10 rather than 20 or 70) but still equally likely, most of the creatures will be closer to the average than to the extremes.

I saw that note, yeah. And I'm familiar with standard deviations for a normal distribution on a bell curve. But on a bell curve, the steps are not equally likely to occur. If it were just a modified bell curve, I'd not be so perplexed. I suppose what I'm trying to do here is to achieve a better understanding of the effects of the values, and how the game deals with them, so I can use that more effectively.

Here's an example:


Each of the intervals has a equally likely chance to be picked, since they all have the same area. Assuming all values withing an interval also have the same probability of being chosen, the values in the middle intervals have a higher probability of happening, since they have less competition.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2350 on: December 02, 2010, 01:08:50 am »

I saw that note, yeah. And I'm familiar with standard deviations for a normal distribution on a bell curve. But on a bell curve, the steps are not equally likely to occur. If it were just a modified bell curve, I'd not be so perplexed. I suppose what I'm trying to do here is to achieve a better understanding of the effects of the values, and how the game deals with them, so I can use that more effectively.

Well yeah, it's not a normal distribution, since it's not (necessarily) symmetric and in general isn't the right shape.  It's probably a uniform distribution although there may be a more precise classification.

e: uh nevermind, it's obviously not uniform.  Um... it's kind of like this except if you jigger the ranges so that all the numbers of students are equal.  Honestly I don't think you'll get a clearer explanation than the pretty picture that Sizik made.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 02:02:58 am by Footkerchief »
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Vattic

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2351 on: December 02, 2010, 02:45:48 am »

The mention of new raws for domestic animals got me wondering about domestic animals in general. Will we be able to define entity specific domestic animals any time soon? While most races should draw from the local surroundings some more fantastical races should be able to keep animals specific to them. Currently you have domesic, evil, and/or local animals leaving little room for modding.

edit:

The same question again but with seeds/crops instead of animals in mind?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 03:12:08 pm by Vattic »
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PsyberianHusky

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2352 on: December 02, 2010, 02:49:31 am »

Will civs Have mining operations that present themselves as physical locations?
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B0013

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2353 on: December 02, 2010, 07:18:32 am »

Will there be Hydra eggs? And dragon eggs? And giant eagle eggs? And giant desert scorpion eggs? And alligator eggs? And giant cave spider eggs?
Will vermin have eggs? So we can like have fluffy fluffy wambler eggs and toad eggs.


(I love eggs)
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #2354 on: December 02, 2010, 07:22:19 am »

Will there be Hydra eggs? And dragon eggs? And giant eagle eggs? And giant desert scorpion eggs? And alligator eggs? And giant cave spider eggs?
Will vermin have eggs? So we can like have fluffy fluffy wambler eggs and toad eggs.


(I love eggs)

Currently the Megabeasts don't even breed and likely won't until Toady has some sort of idea of how they will survive. Though generally speaking I think they should.
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