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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page  (Read 903132 times)

Mantonio

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3720 on: February 17, 2011, 07:32:20 pm »

But the fact that you don't have an inkling of what kind of stone you're facing does hinder you. You said it yourself that it's silly that we don't even know the top layer of stone or soil. Plus - and my biggest gripe with it is here - it means you have to savescum over and over if you want a fort made of the stone you want. Not letting us know what type of stone or soil to expect adds nothing to the game, but detracts something.

To clarify, I feel that the player should be told some information, just not all information, and that the detailed layer summary we had before isn't really as important or necessary. It would still be nice to see things like "there's sedimentary stone on top, and some nice coal deposits and sand".

I agree, but I think it was important, if only for aesthetic choices. I feel we should be told what kind of rock is on top, if only so we can make those aforementioned aesthetic choices. It makes sense that the top layer of rock at least would be identified.
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agatharchides

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3721 on: February 17, 2011, 07:39:07 pm »

In all honesty I think G-Flex and Mantonio are saying pretty similar things. I don't think either 'camp' really approves of the current information before you start a fortress. I think everyone also agrees the current system needs a way to make metal more easily available, whether through trade or mining. I think everyone pretty much agrees that starting civs need to be somehow make an effort to seek out metal so we don't have the whole world stuck in a permanent Stone Age. And I don't think too many people are opposed to trading for most types of metal if that actually works, though some are more upset that the current system is messed up and others more excited by the future potential. While I don't want to speak for anyone else, we do seem to be drifting toward a consensus.  :)
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3722 on: February 17, 2011, 07:40:13 pm »

I think, we're pretty much in agreement here. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with that!
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== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

Sowelu

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3723 on: February 17, 2011, 08:06:28 pm »

Is there any way to compel your civ to settle a new site?  I mean...Hm.  I guess if you strike the earth, then abandon, the site doesn't belong to your civ any more.  Is there any way to get out of a site and have it still belong (even if it doesn't do a damn thing and is empty)?

That would be a way of giving your civ access to new materials.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 08:08:32 pm by Sowelu »
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Sunday

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3724 on: February 17, 2011, 08:26:18 pm »

I guess I haven't had much trouble finding metalóran into tetrahedrite and native copper pretty quickly. Haven't found iron, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed a higher percentage of features? Before, I'd only ever (in many, many fortresses) got a magma pool once, and a downward passage once.

My first (& thus far only) fort on this version has (in addition to the volcano caldera I settled on) both a deep pit and a second magma pool. I guess I could have just gotten lucky though.

Also, I'm having some difficulty with pets attacking dwarfs a lotóis that normal? I've had both a pet dog and a pet gobbler going crazy.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3725 on: February 17, 2011, 08:35:42 pm »

Make sure they have a lot of roaming room.

One feature of the new version is that animals get mad if kept in too close quarters for too long, presumably to prevent you from putting them in 1x1 pasture zones or something.

Its implementation results in animals getting mad as hell on a pretty consistent basis, though, even if they're only cluttered up because they're in a small meeting zone.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3726 on: February 17, 2011, 08:36:51 pm »

Ah, so you have to make meetings zones (as well as pastures) big.

I guess that makes sense. It will make meeting zones a bit more complicated to figure out, but that's OK.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3727 on: February 17, 2011, 08:38:35 pm »

It sort of makes sense but really doesn't. Meeting zones are very far from mandatory, and it's strange animals respect them to begin with. The weird part is that, even though meeting zones aren't mandatory, animals will still get mad at having to share the space... without realizing they could just spread out a bit and nobody would care.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3728 on: February 17, 2011, 08:55:49 pm »

Yeah, that's true. I can understand them wanting to be near their owner, but if they get irritated enough to attack someone, then plainly they should just leave the area first.

Frankly, I'd kind of like to be able to pasture pets as well as generic tame animals. It's nice being able to get all the tame animals out of the way, and it would be awesome to be able to control pets a little bit. Though, admittedly, that would almost certainly lead to massive pet execution.
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Dwarfu

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3729 on: February 17, 2011, 08:58:12 pm »

... that would almost certainly lead to massive pet execution.

I'm fairly certain every path in the game leads to some sort of massive execution.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3730 on: February 17, 2011, 10:10:50 pm »

Yes, but at the same time, generally, you can just cage all the children of a certain animal type, and never have to think about it again.

In my last 40d fort, I think my zoo had one cage that had over 600 creatures in it. (I had very effective cage traps... and a looooooot of unicorns.)

If some of the classic tricks for handling animals goes away, people may just decide not to bother with animals at all.  It's a large amount of micromanagement to monitor and order the slaughtering of animals by hand when you inevitably wind up with a couple dozen species of domestic farm animals all having up to 50 creatures apiece, who can't be allowed to overcrowd lest they attack you.
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Shadowfury333

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3731 on: February 18, 2011, 01:33:38 am »

I'm fairly certain every path in the game leads to some sort of massive execution.

Finally, a quote to adorn my signature with.

With the added foods, materials, and items being made, and thus needing to be stored, has fixing stacking behaviour become higher priority, so that stacking items don't clutter bins and barrels as much?
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I'm fairly certain every path in the game leads to some sort of massive execution.

zwei

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3732 on: February 18, 2011, 03:03:33 am »

Frankly, i was sick of abundant minerals. It was awesome at first to embark at mountainslope and see dozens of surfaced veins, then it was usefull and then it was boring and OCD-harmfull (gotta ... smelt ... it ... all).

Besides, you do NOT need abundant metal to defent yourself - you still have humans/dwarves to buy weapon and armor pieces from. You CAN make use of leather and bones to armor your dwarves for first ambushes if you are completelly dry and after defeated ambush, you ought to have some metal laying around... conveniently in form of fitting armor and even some usable weapons.

Game could let you bootstrap metal indrustry from nothing thou - like making anvil without forge ... clay form from kiln and reaction at smelter to pour iron into it would be rather nice if you have iron-less civ.

LoSboccacc

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3733 on: February 18, 2011, 03:43:04 am »

Game could let you bootstrap metal indrustry from nothing thou - like making anvil without forge ... clay form from kiln and reaction at smelter to pour iron into it would be rather nice if you have iron-less civ.

wow, this would allow to start with a zero point embark... now, can somebody do it?
pretty please?
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Xgamer4

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Re: Future of the Fortress: The Development Page
« Reply #3734 on: February 18, 2011, 03:53:57 am »

If some of the classic tricks for handling animals goes away, people may just decide not to bother with animals at all.  It's a large amount of micromanagement to monitor and order the slaughtering of animals by hand when you inevitably wind up with a couple dozen species of domestic farm animals all having up to 50 creatures apiece, who can't be allowed to overcrowd lest they attack you.

The best way to handle this, imo, would be to implement conditional manager orders. The normal example is "Brew booze when stocks < 100", or similar, but using that to do something like "butcher cows when stock > 3" would work just as well. That would get rid of a lot of micromanagement in a lot of places.

EDIT:
Found it. It's currently number two, "Standing production orders" on the ESV. The relevant thread is here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=46325.0

EDIT EDIT:
Ok, so not exactly like the thread I linked to. But it's close enough it fits in the ESV idea. This is from the thread.
Quote
Only certain things would work with this.  Things that need designations, like stone, logs, plants from gathering/farming, meat from butchering, as well as other various things wouldn't work.  I'll put up a list later.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 04:03:43 am by Xgamer4 »
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