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Author Topic: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]  (Read 13217 times)

Lord Snow

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Hi, with help of the wiki and experimenting i figured out bits of the civilian attribute mess.

As everyone probably noted, vanilla DF 31.08 will invariably turn your dwarves into obese, slow, weak, clumsy, socially inept, uncreative idiots with passing time, no matter what or how much they work.

To fix the decay the following needs to be added to .df_folder/raw/objects/creature_standard.txt below dwarf but before the next creature starts:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This can be done for running fortresses/existing worlds too, by editing it into
df_folder/data/save/region/raw/objects/creature_standard.txt

If you wish to turn of skill decay too, add this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Note that the number right after Attribute Rates is only 1/10th of the default; this is the cost to improve the attribute.
I found 500 to be exceedingly slow, possibly so slow that it's the cause of the rapid attribute decay we see in vanilla df at the moment. 50 will have your miners gain attribute increases at a speed that is (to my feeling) a bit slower than the old 40d dwarves.


So far i've had dwarves notably gain attributes by mining (strength, endurance, agility) and pumping (endurance). But none at all through other actions i've tried in the short term (but at lower improvement costs, the rate can even be set to negative!)

Enjoy.

If anyone can monitor a few of his dwarves for a longer term and see if there's a gain to toughness etc too, please do and share ;)

Sources:
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Cheating#Tinkering_with_the_Dwarven_Soul
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=803
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 04:23:37 pm by Lord Snow »
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Noble Digger

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2010, 08:27:38 pm »

Thanks a lot for this. Upon going back and looking at all my dwarves 12 years after embark, they all have red stats... Pretty awful. Nobody ever idles. When they were younger dwarves they had green stats :)

I don't feel that attribute or skill decay has added anything positive to the game so far...
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1. To evade the truth or importance of an issue by raising trivial distinctions and objections.
2. To find fault or criticize for petty reasons; cavil.

uber pye

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2010, 08:51:52 pm »

sweet

>8D
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Niveras

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2010, 09:51:10 am »

I'm not certain this works. I've added these tags to active saves in previous forts, and again to the default raws in a fresh .08 gen, yet many (read: pretty much all) of my dwarves still have red stats, particularly with their mental attributes (which can't be gained in any known way right now). I vaguely recall reading in previous threads about these tags that although they are supposed to be able to manage and eliminate stat decay, they just don't work right now.

Hopefully Toady will get around to fixing that and also adding mind attributes to things like conversation, organization (squad leaders, manager), artistry (idol, statue making, but particularly decorating/imaging/engraving), and whatever else, to combat decay more naturally.
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smjjames

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2010, 10:03:51 am »

Thanks a lot for this. Upon going back and looking at all my dwarves 12 years after embark, they all have red stats... Pretty awful. Nobody ever idles. When they were younger dwarves they had green stats :)

I don't feel that attribute or skill decay has added anything positive to the game so far...

I kind of agree here. Although I haven't done a fort for long enough to see the decay, I've heard plenty about it.
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Lord Snow

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 02:44:56 pm »

.
As stated up there, this will allow for stat gains in strength, endurance and agility by means of mining.

Also, this is in no way a cheat that would insta-fix your old dwarves degenerated stats.

Any other stat gains, and stat gains through other actions (except pump operating for endurance) i could not prove - but there's no reason to not at least turn of the decay.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 02:46:37 pm by Lord Snow »
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katyrnyn

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2010, 07:05:00 pm »

Thanks!  Now perhaps my entire military won't devolve into Shocking Fragile tubs of lard.
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Ricky

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2010, 08:36:02 pm »

Thanks!  Now perhaps my entire military won't devolve into Shocking Fragile tubs of lard.


this is a masterfully designed image of dwarves by Urist Mcheartless. the dwarves are training. the dwarves are having trouble breathing. the artwork relates to the decomopsition of the dwarves physical attributes in 1056
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lamoxlamae

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 05:11:37 pm »

Thanks a lot for this. Upon going back and looking at all my dwarves 12 years after embark, they all have red stats... Pretty awful. Nobody ever idles. When they were younger dwarves they had green stats :)

I don't feel that attribute or skill decay has added anything positive to the game so far...

I'm a newb to the game and fully agree. You know it's bad when even a newb can see that something is not adding anything positive or (using non-DF definition) fun to things!

By the way... Dwarfs are supposed to age slowly. 12 years in dwarf is equal to maybe 3 years or less to a human. That would be like getting out of college a weak and dribbling idiot after going in as a strong and normal highschooler. Why did he add this to the game to begin with, especially at such high rates?

Back on subject, thanks for the mod! Applying it to all my files now.
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Shurhaian

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2010, 06:19:43 pm »

It was supposed to make for a more realistic system of stat improvements through various sorts of exercise than the semi-random gains in 40d(become legendary bookkeeper, be super strong/fast/tough... uh, what?). It's just, in some mixture, incomplete and buggy - but that doesn't mean the principle is stupid.
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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 06:31:24 pm »

On the contrary, it makes perfect since that a dwarven bookkeeper should become stronger, since dwarves don't have books, or paper. They have to sit in a chair and concentrate hard enough to sense every item in the region. This requires incredible willpower and complex gestures and poses, similar to arcane spellcasting, and the gestures are physically exhaustive. This is why you often see your bookkeeper bring an entire barrel of alcohol to his chair so he won't die of thirst while performing the rituals.
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Ricky

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 06:52:43 pm »

On the contrary, it makes perfect since that a dwarven bookkeeper should become stronger, since dwarves don't have books, or paper. They have to sit in a chair and concentrate hard enough to sense every item in the region. This requires incredible willpower and complex gestures and poses, similar to arcane spellcasting, and the gestures are physically exhaustive. This is why you often see your bookkeeper bring an entire barrel of alcohol to his chair so he won't die of thirst while performing the rituals.


my bookeeper used to do that, now my stockpile are always updated. always.
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lanceleoghauni

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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 07:32:26 pm »

He managed to create a sympathetic link with all the other barrels of alcohol, using them as amplifiers to locate every item on the map.
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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2010, 06:50:18 am »

Necroing this slightly instead of making a new thread to ask some questions.

-Does this fix work with the new version at all?
-Does this require a regen?

I'm asking because I added this to the raws and it doesn't seem to work
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Re: Stopping attribute decay, training physical attributes [Raw Edit]
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2010, 07:41:11 am »

Necroing this slightly instead of making a new thread to ask some questions.

-Does this fix work with the new version at all?
-Does this require a regen?

I'm asking because I added this to the raws and it doesn't seem to work
Did you also change the raw in your save's folder?
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