Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[AlStar]

Forgive me if this has come up before (I ran a search, but didn't see anything come up) but now that shell armor is working correctly, it seems like a good time to ask - is there any point to using it?

My forts seem to often end up with huge stockpiles of shells (and they'll be even larger now that shell-moods are getting more rare) and if I could turn those into effective armor, it could defiantely help my dwarves.

I'm curious if anyone has run any tests to see which of the non-metal armors are best.

[Shrugging Khan]

On a similar note, what's the combative value of bone bolts VS wooden VS metal ones?

(Pardon the hijack)

[zwei]

Shell/Bone armor is superior to leather armor and masterpiece is close to lowest quality copper/iron armor.

Since busy bonecarver gets you easy masterpieces, there is no reason to skip this. Especially if your military has no armor and you have little metal industry.

[Arkose]

Are there any bones or shells with interesting or useful qualities, with regard to armor? I know that imp bone armor used to set things on fire (including the dwarf wearing it), although I seem to recall that no longer happening in recent releases.

[NW_Kohaku]

Probably the most relevant stat is density.  Especially for bolts, as they tend to fly at the same speed, so their mass is the biggest determinant of damage, and all bolts are the same volume and shape.

Bone (and all flesh) seem not to have any specific density associated with them, instead letting them all share the same density, as far as I can tell, which appears to be basically a density of 1 kg/l, or in DF terms, DENSITY 1000. (Yes, it's all metric now.  This essentially amounts to kg/m³)

This means that wood will be better than any animal product, provided it has a SOLID_DENSITY greater than 1000.

Unfortunately, most woods have a solid density of around 600, but a few fictional woods don't.  (This would, incidentally, make them denser than water.) Bloodthorn and Glumprong are the only two woods in Vanilla that fit this bill, at 1250 and 1200, respectively.

Keep in mind that copper has a SOLID DENSITY of 8930, though, and you'll see what kind of difference there is in these materials.

[Grimlocke]

[SOLID_DENSITY:500]

It has a density, as do all stock materials. Even blood (strangly this is also 500) and and booze do. Hell they even have a max edge. Booze sword anyone?

Bone does have superiour material properties compared to wood, so for armour it should be superior for sure.

[MonkeyHead]

[SOLID_DENSITY:500]

It has a density, as do all stock materials. Even blood (strangly this is also 500) and and booze do. Hell they even have a max edge. Booze sword anyone?

Bone does have superiour material properties compared to wood, so for armour it should be superior for sure.

This is a well crafted dwarven wine shortsword. It is encircled with cat leather and decorated with rings of hanging microcline.

[NW_Kohaku]

[SOLID_DENSITY:500]

It has a density, as do all stock materials. Even blood (strangly this is also 500) and and booze do. Hell they even have a max edge. Booze sword anyone?

Bone does have superiour material properties compared to wood, so for armour it should be superior for sure.

?!

I looked all over (but mostly in the tissue template) for that data, I can't believe I completely overlooked "Material_template"

And yes, I have trouble believing that teeth, bones, hair, and most major organs like the kidneys or liver have density half that of water.

[Untelligent]

Shell/Bone armor is superior to leather armor and masterpiece is close to lowest quality copper/iron armor.

How do you know this?

[dennislp3]

http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/40d:Armor#Material

That is how materials worked in 40d...while not the same I do believe the quality multiplier effect still works...don't quote me though

[Grimlocke]

Very unquoteworthy indeed, its not how that works anymore. A majour part of .31 is the completely reworked material system. Materials no longer have a single defence/offence multiplier but a set of real world strength variables along with a unitless 'maximum edge' that is used for how well the material can hold an edge.

Hence you can no longer say anything like 'iron is twice as good as wood', because there is a ton of different number and nobody knows how exactely they are used in combat. That and iron is useless now, as it is in reality.

Probabaly Zwei's quite was also based of 40d information. There a masterful piece of bone/wood/shell/etc armour was indeed as good as a piece of iron armour of default quality (that is, assuming the wiki then was correct about quality multiplier)

[dennislp3]

Very unquoteworthy indeed, its not how that works anymore. A majour part of .31 is the completely reworked material system. Materials no longer have a single defence/offence multiplier but a set of real world strength variables along with a unitless 'maximum edge' that is used for how well the material can hold an edge.

Hence you can no longer say anything like 'iron is twice as good as wood', because there is a ton of different number and nobody knows how exactely they are used in combat. That and iron is useless now, as it is in reality.

Probabaly Zwei's quite was also based of 40d information. There a masterful piece of bone/wood/shell/etc armour was indeed as good as a piece of iron armour of default quality (that is, assuming the wiki then was correct about quality multiplier)

Did you even read what I said? apparently not....next time before you decide to act all high and mighty and try and make everyone else look stupid you should read...I clearly stated that what I posted was how it worked in 40d and that its not the same...I posted what I did to reference the quality modifier not the material modifier....I also stated that the quality modifier might not even exist anymore...

With the new system the principles are the same...bronze => Iron => steel AFAIK the reasons are way more complicated but it still holds true. But the OPs question is still valid (which non metal is best)...because even though the system is different some things are better then others...

Not to mention people DO know how the new system works...I don't want to go into the details because I don't know them as well as some. I do know that material weight, hardness values, and speed calculate damage (few other things do as well but I don't remember them right now)

[breadbocks]

With the new system the principles are the same...bronze => Iron => steel AFAIK the reasons are way more complicated but it still holds true. But the OPs question is still valid (which non metal is best)...because even though the system is different some things are better then others...

Fail Troll fails. It's Iron->Bronze now. Read up on what you post.

[Noble Digger]

With the new system the principles are the same...bronze => Iron => steel AFAIK the reasons are way more complicated but it still holds true. But the OPs question is still valid (which non metal is best)...because even though the system is different some things are better then others...

Fail Troll fails. It's Iron->Bronze now. Read up on what you post.

Who are you calling a troll? Do you even know what trolling is? Take your own advice.

[breadbocks]

Did you even read what I said? apparently not....next time before you decide to act all high and mighty and try and make everyone else look stupid you should read...I clearly stated that what I posted was how it worked in 40d and that its not the same...I posted what I did to reference the quality modifier not the material modifier....I also stated that the quality modifier might not even exist anymore...

Post like this to get the moral high ground are common with trolls because it makes it harder for the user to fight back. Rather than correct the mistaken user without going overboard, they prefer to patronize and complain when struck back at. I should know. I make a past time of being a mild troll. See the female beards? topic for an example.