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Author Topic: Is dwarf fortress communist?  (Read 25695 times)

nbonaparte

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2010, 12:21:42 pm »

Did this thread Godwin itself in the OP?  :o
Yes, yes it did.
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Biag

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2010, 12:48:00 pm »

Nah, it's pretty much feudal.  The dwarves work in exchange for protection and payment in the form of a portion of goods and services produced provided by their lords; when the economy kicks in, it's a little more capitalist but still more or less similar to 14th and 15th century feudal systems.

I disagree. If by "lords" you mean the nobles, the only thing dwarves get from the nobles is Not A Hammering if they follow production orders. You could argue that the player is the lord, since (s)he controls the military and the production orders, but I don't think that's the case at all. If you try to assign a role to the player, (s)he seems more like an ant queen than anything. Think about it: without the player, all dwarves would do is run away from hostile creatures and quickly starve to death, having no way to get more food.

If you consider the player, there really is no conventional government that applies to Dwarf Fortress. Considering the player, I think an ant colony really is the best way to describe it: one single being completely controls the actions of a number of others, who have little to no free will. Of course, that's incredibly simplified from both the concepts of an ant colony and a fort, but the basic principle still applies.

If you take the player directly out of the mix, I think an early fort is a commune and a larger fort is a tribe. The economy is never really capitalist, as stated, and the dwarves do continue to work together on every task.

Off-topic: Does anyone else find it interesting that dwarves are always completely honest about their crimes, to the point where dwarven society doesn't even require crime investigation? I realize that this is because Toady hasn't put in crime investigation and lying yet, but as a concept it's interesting to me.
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Fatty Limes

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2010, 01:03:08 pm »

Considering the player, I think an ant colony really is the best way to describe it: one single being completely controls the actions of a number of others, who have little to no free will.

arguably more of a hive-mind since the player is a sentient being as opposed to instincts. Urist McZergling!
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Hyndis

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2010, 01:12:40 pm »

Urist McZergling cancels rush; getting drink.
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Quatch

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2010, 01:35:29 pm »

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SAVE THE PHILOSOPHER!
>>KillerClowns: It's faster to write "!!science!!" than any of the synonyms: "mad science", "dwarven science", or "crimes against the laws of god and man".
>>Orius: I plan my forts with some degree of paranoia.  It's kept me somewhat safe.

Quantum Toast

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2010, 02:01:44 pm »

Did this thread Godwin itself in the OP?  :o
It's efficient, you've got to give it that.
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devek

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2010, 02:01:53 pm »

The OP watches too much Glenn Beck.

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devek

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2010, 02:03:34 pm »

Of course even once the economy is started it's far more socialist than most countries, free healthcare and education and even if dwarfs/dwarves can't afford a room or lunch they can still get free beds in the barracks and food on credit.

Free healthcare and education isn't socialist.

Stop listening to Glenn Beck lol.
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mwanafalsafa

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2010, 02:37:18 pm »

Yea I would say it's somewhat communist. But that doesn't necessarily say much, since we're trying to apply terms used to describe economics systems in the real world with a program that, though amazing as far as simulations go, is still a far, far cry from the workings of a real economy with real people.

And since apparently everyone else is going OT... Hitler was a socialist, just a different variety of socialist from the Soviets.
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devek

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2010, 02:45:50 pm »

Yea I would say it's somewhat communist. But that doesn't necessarily say much, since we're trying to apply terms used to describe economics systems in the real world with a program that, though amazing as far as simulations go, is still a far, far cry from the workings of a real economy with real people.

Than why are capitalist countries more likely to have free healthcare and education than socialist countries?

Words don't mean what you want them to mean, lol.
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Mckee

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2010, 02:56:00 pm »

Buddy, I would like you to substantiate the claim of more capitalist societies having free healthcare than socialist/communist. And I don't mean in sheer numbers (flawed because there are more capitalist countries than socialist) instead in percentage. I'd be interested in seeing that.

Also, in economics alone, a fort is like a commune, but some aspects - nobles, legendaries possibly and the hive mind player do change this.
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nbonaparte

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2010, 02:57:13 pm »

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devek

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2010, 03:03:15 pm »

Buddy, I would like you to substantiate the claim of more capitalist societies having free healthcare than socialist/communist. And I don't mean in sheer numbers (flawed because there are more capitalist countries than socialist) instead in percentage. I'd be interested in seeing that.

Also, in economics alone, a fort is like a commune, but some aspects - nobles, legendaries possibly and the hive mind player do change this.

Easy, there isn't a communist country with universal healthcare and education lol.

Citizens pay more money for healthcare in China than they do in Europe lol.

It is funny too, because only Americans(who listen to Glenn Beck) think this way. In the rest of the world, healtcare isn't any more socialist than roads, police, firefighters, etc. Which is weird because you don't see people in America calling it socialist that they spend tax dollars to make sure the poor eat properly inspected meat.

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Mckee

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2010, 03:08:17 pm »

If there isn't now, I'm wondering about USSR and its various satelite states, or cuba, or anywhere else. Furthermore, I'm english, we have nationalised healthcare, and who the frak is glenn beck. I never assume national healthcare is socialist, I'm hardly stupid.
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Huesoo

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Re: Is dwarf fortress communist?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 03:14:28 pm »

Buddy, I would like you to substantiate the claim of more capitalist societies having free healthcare than socialist/communist. And I don't mean in sheer numbers (flawed because there are more capitalist countries than socialist) instead in percentage. I'd be interested in seeing that.

Also, in economics alone, a fort is like a commune, but some aspects - nobles, legendaries possibly and the hive mind player do change this.

Easy, there isn't a communist country with universal healthcare and education lol.

Citizens pay more money for healthcare in China than they do in Europe lol.

It is funny too, because only Americans(who listen to Glenn Beck) think this way. In the rest of the world, healtcare isn't any more socialist than roads, police, firefighters, etc. Which is weird because you don't see people in America calling it socialist that they spend tax dollars to make sure the poor eat properly inspected meat.

Cuba does, do you have any citations for that claim? Saying all people who listen to Glenn Beck follow him is just stupid, and saying that only Americans listen to Glenn Beck is also stupid. You might not want to say American because that implies people from the continent of America (33 different countries). Please dont use lol after your sentences because it makes you look like a 9 year old. (and even then we have a 9 year old here who doesnt say that after their sentences).
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