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[nbonaparte]

at this rate im surprised this thread hasn't Godwin'd itself

Hitler would say that.

[breadbocks]

Now that you mention it, I does seem like this thread was engineered by someone in a certain political party to cause chaos and disorder among the ranks of the forums. Then said person could in, theory, emerge as the leader of said party and take over the forum government, and then cremate all the beardless forumites. Hail to the chief, baby!

[Eugenitor]

Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...

Just pointing that out.

Well, since dwarves prepare kidneys, brain, liver, sweetbread, and tripe without any problems, Rocky Mountain Oysters should taste about the same.

[NW_Kohaku]

The problem with talking about taste is that you know there won't be any.  Even if you call them "mammaries" in the game, you're still going to see them mostly when they get cut off, mutilated, or are severed from the body of the creature who once possessed them, and potentially when some adventurer gets it in his sick head to start throwing it at people like Oddjob with his hat, decapitating people with the absurd throwing mechanics.

I doubt that Toady fears moral guardians, I mean, this game is already something that really only appeals to the M crowd, anyway.  Even if there were acts of sex in this game, the simple fact that you can't see anything would probably prevent most people from getting upset.  (Remember that the GTA version of Hot Coffee that was perfectly fine by the censors was the version where all you saw was the house, and heard sexual moaning, and it was made quite explicit that CJ was having sex, but that you simply couldn't see it.)

As for this game hitting FATAL levels of perversion... I hate to break it to you, but we're already a bunch of raw-intestines eating, childfall-creating, Goblin-Fortress making, blood pool for the blood god clamoring, slave-wanting, elf and kitten torturous and genocidal group, here.  If rock bottom yet lies below us, it isn't very far.  (I think the thing that sets us apart from FATAL at this point is forced abortions by melee combat (I.E. the "FALCON PUNCH" crowd), extremely detailed play-by-play rules for sex/rape, and an obvious hardon for professional wrestling.  Heck, you can even roll for anal circumference if you mod anuses into your creatures.)

As for feces, Toady actually recently said in a Q&A that he actually likes feces for the ability to use it as manure, to make you clean up after livestock, and for having to build sewers.  The only reason he's holding off is that he doesn't want to force "potty breaks", because he feels dwarves take enough breaks over the course of a year, and he doesn't want a "you gotta go" message to pop up in Adventurer mode during combat, which would "ruin the immersion".

[martinuzz]

and he doesn't want a "you gotta go" message to pop up in Adventurer mode during combat, which would "ruin the immersion".

Giant Cave Spider Silk Diapers

[Oglokoog]

Seriously? Moral crusaders? Here? We've already got a waterfall made of children, teenage girls being beaten with axes, temper tantrums involving maces, fell moods, animal torture, clowns, and all kinds of gruesome M-rated stuff. We've got decapitation and limb removal galore. Why does it only become a problem when it happens to someone's PINGAS?

I'm seriously considering sigging this.
Also I am disgusted by the current level of importance people willingly give to rating organizations. It is sick, perverted and most of all retarded.

[Eugenitor]

Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!

And the ESRB is silly. It serves no purpose beyond "Give the kids something to want" and attempting to label porn. It also makes no critical distinctions between types of "Blood and Gore" and "Sexual Content". Is the blood and gore coming from pulped zombies or screaming babies? Is the sexual content Leisure Suit Larry, or closer to a cutaway version of Max Hardcore? In Dragon Age: Origins, you can have gay sex with an elf, with the only thing between you and elf dick a tiny layer of flimsy cloth. Holy crap, thanks for warning us about that, ESRB!

Prototype and Infamous are practically the same game; one is labeled M, the other T, because in Prototype there's quite a bit more red pixels on the screen. So it's more all right if the player can brutally murder someone by tossing them off the top of a twelve-story building, and then landing on them in a thunderous shockwave of death, just so long as the laws of physics don't apply with regards to their internal organs?

As an attempt to actually warn people of just what's in the game, it fails. The ESRB is just there to placate said moronic moral guardians. That's all.

Of course maybe one day this whole fantasy of 'if they're exposed to it, it will corrupt their young minds!' will die off in the face of common sense. Actual children have fantasies more outrageously violent than anything an adult can come up with. The fact that we still see this argument in 2010 is ridiculous. Young boys love bloody messes as well as the chance to spray sticky fluids onto things. As do DF players. Deal with it.

But even with the whole "oh no content advisory" bullshit out of the way, this doesn't mean that we should expect Toady to simulate everything. Watching dwarves get turned into eunuchs might be funny. Beating people to death with a (forgotten beast wang) might make for some great screenshots, particularly since forgotten beasts have multiple organs of all kinds. But if we really get into the simulation aspect, dwarven women will start having periods, and I don't think anyone wants that.

[NW_Kohaku]

As an attempt to actually warn people of just what's in the game, it fails. The ESRB is just there to placate said moronic moral guardians. That's all.

Actually, the ESRB IS just there to placate the moral guardians.  The gaming companies set it up so that they wouldn't have to censor their games the way Nintendo used to (like with bloodless Mortal Kombat), and could instead just sell whatever games with a tag on the outside that says "Hey, we had some lazy, nondescript warning that there was violence in this box, don't complain to me!"

Of course maybe one day this whole fantasy of 'if they're exposed to it, it will corrupt their young minds!' will die off in the face of common sense.

HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, right, the Helen Lovejoys will always be there to home-school their children so that they never have any fun, and they will grow up as Helen Lovejoy clones that homeschool their children and don't let their children have fun, either.

People have been condemning people for "Corrupting The Youth" since the days of Aristotle.  We just happen to be lucky enough to live in a time when the biggest advocate for the Helen Lovejoys was Jack Thompson, a man so idiotic and incompetent that he proclaimed that The Sims was a threat to society becuase people were capable of modding Penises in.  If he didn't so utterly discredit the notion of censorship of games, we might be under the same threat movies and comic books had been under.

[Mason11987]

Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!

And the ESRB is silly.
<snip>

Don't be so quick to say bad things about the ESRB.  If you're 17+ (which the huge margin of gamers actually are) then their markings cause zero impact on your gaming experience.  But if there wasn't the ability for game makers to mark their games "M", then people would demand that ALL games be safe for kids.  This way those who want to protect their kids (a reasonable, or unreasonable amount) can be satisfied, and gamers can still get the best games that can be made.  Really having the ESRB (or something that serves the same purpose) is really the best-case scenario for gaming.

[MaDeR Levap]

Funny how this whole thread is about possible censorship, and not a word is spent regarding good taste...

This game want to be realistic (well, as much as something that want magic in can be realistic) fantasy simulator. Certain body parts (involving making more of dorfs), certain products (from... behind) and similiar things WILL eventually be in (assuming that developing will not stop before then).

If you are offended by game that contains this kind of thing, go play something else. If you are offended by reality*, I offer fast way out, involving a few gram of lead.

*Pretending that certain things does not exist is in itself immature and retarded.

[Oglokoog]

Ooh! Sig me! Sig me!

And the ESRB is silly.
<snip>

Don't be so quick to say bad things about the ESRB.  If you're 17+ (which the huge margin of gamers actually are) then their markings cause zero impact on your gaming experience.  But if there wasn't the ability for game makers to mark their games "M", then people would demand that ALL games be safe for kids.  This way those who want to protect their kids (a reasonable, or unreasonable amount) can be satisfied, and gamers can still get the best games that can be made.  Really having the ESRB (or something that serves the same purpose) is really the best-case scenario for gaming.

Uh... no? No.
Really man.
I can't even follow your train of thought, much less agree with it.

[Frelock]

Why not?  His reasoning's very clear.  People are going to want to keep their young children from playing extremely violent/sexual games.  Now, were there no rating system, some parents, in their over-zealousness would just completely block off their children from all videogames, or insist that all games be censored to an "appropriate" level.  However, with the ratings system, those very concerned parents can still "protect" their young children, while the gaming industry can still produce more raunchy titles.  As mature gamers, we just ignore the ratings anyway, so it doesn't really affect us at all.  Everybody wins; the parents can censor what their kids view as they desire, and we still get to play whatever we want.


In more regards to the opening topic, more specific body parts means my dwarves will have to start actually mating, which is just one more task to keep them from building my fortress of DOOM.

[Mel_Vixen]

They anyway sleep in the same bed together - if they are married but i hope that changes too - they party together etc. So there are many chances where they can get theyr share of intimate intercourse. Two Lovers going of from a party to have sex? Why not thats pretty common. Heh it could lead even to our first actual crime "Public nuisance" if the dont find a private place / get caught (in a someone others bed).

[antymattar]

Now that you mention it, I does seem like this thread was engineered by someone in a certain political party to cause chaos and disorder among the ranks of the forums. Then said person could in, theory, emerge as the leader of said party and take over the forum government, and then cremate all the beardless forumites. Hail to the chief, baby!

Actually that was my intention. So.... Baw to my will!!!

[Eugenitor]

If you are offended by reality, I offer fast way out, involving a few gram of lead.

If I wasn't limiting myself to dwarf-related quotes in my sig, I'd totally put this in there.

those very concerned parents can still "protect" their young children

Yeah, until the kid gets online and finds this weird game with all the letters and the little faces...