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Poll

How important is writing to you?

I'd like to become a professional writer in the next decade.
- 7 (29.2%)
Less than videogames.
- 6 (25%)
I am a professional writer.
- 3 (12.5%)
More than my health.
- 2 (8.3%)
I'm not sure.
- 5 (20.8%)
More than videogames.
- 0 (0%)
Not at all.
- 1 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: April 23, 2012, 11:42:36 pm


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Author Topic: Bay12 Writers Guild  (Read 56200 times)

bjlong

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #135 on: September 07, 2010, 05:36:59 pm »

I may-or-may-not write a bit for the writing prompt. In any case, some reviews!

Hey bjlong, thanks very much for reading my writing and giving me such feedback, I really appreciate it - it's great to see another angle and it definitely opens up my own writing to me.

I thought, as soon as everybody in here tends to like fantasy, I would have a crack at this, for fun and practice - an opening to a story, based on the DF world.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Good to hear you got something from the critique! I never know if I'm being too harsh or not.

As for this story, it's got some interesting developments here! A bit unfinished, yes, but here's what I'm seeing: there is an excellent thrumming sort of build-up in the opening narration that comes to a head when the description of dwarves and goblins fighting ends so slammingly anticlimactically. The ending shows some promise, but ends up a bit out-of-nowhere, since it's not foreshadowed enough. In all, an excellent development of themes.

If you're willing to take a second look at this, then here's what I'd suggest: First, take the narrative comments by Grax back a bit--he should be fully engrossed in the story, or else we get pulled out, too. Only pull us back to show us something important. Second, emphasize the valor of the lashers. Make the reader feel like s/he wants to be in one of those squads him/herself, and show that it's important to Grax to do something in these squads. Third, even if you want to keep the dwarves incredibly amazing, give the warriors a fitting end--sure, plenty should die, but have the survivors be battle-hardened, even revered. Then we'd get Grax's inclination to steal babies much easier.

Overall, I think you've got an excellent start--almost reminds me of Beowulf. And that's a good thing.

Now, this is a different take on it than the humorous story, but I think the two are definitely compatible. I'm not sure of the specifics, but I'm sure you could find a way!

Disregard my earlier post, I think I have this somewhat presentable now. This isn't my published stuff, this is practice, and it's going to be ongoing. I am, however, not going to fix any of these up. I am putting more work into their writing from the outset rather than relying on drafts. Because, like I said, these are practice. Criticism, and comments are welcome. No blurb yet as I will leave that for later.


Good to hear you're dropping stuff to get critiqued! I'd recommend that you try revising at least once, say, for every three sections you write--50% of writing is revisions. The other 50% is also revisions. Just preemptive ones.

I have to say, you've got an interesting world going on here--and that hits me from the first paragraph, which is excellent. I see you've got an arc considered, and a protagonist who seems to be unique. I'm not quite sure about sympathetic, yet, which might be because I'm identifying with the players too much. But it seems like you've got all the basics in place for a solid story!

Now, here are some things I noticed: The action scene, while you give a definite sense of immediacy, seems to lack a sense of space--I lose track of where people are every now and then. If that's how it gets with the character, you might want to put a little tag to that effect in the prose. You're also telling this story in a disinterested prose, so the black humor that your character talks of occasionally falls flat--for instance, with the quip about the witch and her broom, you end up deflating the joke with your paragraphing and the following comments. If you'd like an opinion, I'd restructure it like so:

"...she wanted me to join her. I would have the honorable task to lead the forces protecting her from the players' inevitable raids in a glorious kamikaze that would save her.

I told her to go back to screwing with her broom.

I was banished.

It was both worth it and for the best. Two weeks later fifteen players got together, and lead an attack against her. The Sisters of the Ecumenical Gardens ceased to be."

I'm sure this could be tightened more, making the double-punchline crack like a whip, but you get the idea. Don't let me skim over the punchline!

Finally, you have quite a few wind-up sentences, where you're commenting on something that hasn't happened yet, or that just happened. Condense or cut these, and remember that in general, all sentences must do something, or else they are simply giving the reader time to get bored.

That said, none of these flaws are even close to damning--this sounds to me like a pretty good first draft of the first section of the story. Keep going!

Posted this on the MSPA forums, but didn't really get a lot of replies. So here it is here, for review.


That's an excellent little story! I'd definitely agree with the characterization issue, but the dark tone of the piece definitely shines through. I especially like how the characters we are indicated we should like in an existing story come off as horrific in your story--it's a nice touch.

Now, as for other things: I'd recommend that you give Lemonsnout a vent to his feelings, so that we don't get the feeling that this is just a bunch of stuff happening to a guy. Show him scared, angry, upset, shellshocked, whatever. Just show him reacting. I'd also recommend that you spend a little time discussing the particulars of each action, and, yes, give us more description. Right now, it's like you've thrown some paint on a canvas, blocked out some shapes, then called it a day. This might work for modern painting, but not for you. I need stuff to visualize, and in a highly visual world like MSPA, you have a ton to talk about. You could even make things up willy-nilly, practically without repercussion.

All in all, I'd add a lot more description, give Lemonsnout a voice, and call this little piece done.
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Little

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #136 on: September 07, 2010, 07:43:50 pm »

What's the current prompt?
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2010, 01:51:09 am »

What's the current prompt?
Currently in the OP, but you have to read the quote following the prompt to get what it means. I had a couple of unrequited prompts before the current one, so maybe you can come up with something for "an island, a banana-cream cake and an outdated software". What the other one was I don't remember. Oh! Or Fishbreath's "surprise us" - write something that we don't expect, that is, with a twist.
So, choose whichever works for you. And if neither works, please explain what prompt you'd like to see.
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Krelos

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2010, 02:43:47 am »

This used to be the prologue for the book I was writing, but the story has undergone so much alteration since I wrote it that it doesn't really fit anymore.

So, I'll just call it
Spoiler: Jailbreak (click to show/hide)

Anything you have for input is more than welcome.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 02:56:18 am by Krelos »
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In order to improve the universe's frame rate, we must all throw rocks into volcanoes and then do absolutely nothing, worldwide, for a week, to take pressure off pathfinding.
or maybe throw them into the large hadron collider to atom-smash them instead.
Not to mention to throw all available animals into tiny pits.

Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #139 on: September 08, 2010, 09:44:21 am »

@Krelos: It's good, but could be better. I've got a bad habit of dawdling at the start with long descriptions, thoughts of the protagonist etc. You are the second man here who starts a little too briskly for comfort. Really, for the emphasis Dal gets with the first sentence you'd think he's the protagonist or at least the antagonist. The beginning would feel better if it were replaced with something slower, the description of the situation, for example. Or not replaced, but prefaced.
Then, I'm afraid I'll have to apologize to Fishbreath for my critique on his lavish dialogue tags - some of them are still necessary, and you could use more. Specifically this place -
Quote from: Krelos
   "Ha, yes," Barden laughed, taking his sword belt from a hook by the door. "He always has been a paranoid one."
   "Even more so now, what with that fur-devil in there."
   "I don't know how much of a devil it is, but I sure don't like having it around. I hope they transfer it to Esseris soon, just having it nearby makes me nervous."
   "Nervous? What's it gonna do? Cut through solid iron and come after you in your sleep?"
   Barden chuckled as he finished putting his sword on and opened the door.
On the overall pacing - it feels like it's unjustly slow towards the end, maybe during the fight you need to use some stronger, more meaty, if I may, verbs or shorten your sentences.
It's quite possible that this feeling was intensified for me by Barden shouting "Go, I'll hold him here!" I may be corrected, but from what I know of fencing, a usual duel involves only a couple of strikes, slashes or swings, unless you go the Hollywood way. So, in a couple of moments either one or the other wins, and who's holding whom? Well, it's sort of obvious later that you've gone the Hollywood way, but for me personally it's a negative moment.
And together with that, Meyers'  "He's alive, but he'll have one hell of a headache tomorrow" feels non-sequitur and not really funny.
Instead, I was surprised that you didn't exploit the fact that everyone in that jail seems to be a bit sly, and people are supposed to donate money if someone dies, so I had a suspicion that Garren's death was somebody's lie to extort some money. Maybe it could occur to Barden, but it would be a false alarm.

@Fishbreath: Nice new "chapter". Hm, maybe it's been explained somewhere, but why did you decide to alternate between Anja, Rakel and Eirik?
About the commentary - I suspect that it's your becoming a better writer, because from what I've heard this thing grows if you work it out.

Edit: Carp, proofread.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 01:09:25 pm by Supermikhail »
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Fishbreath

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #140 on: September 08, 2010, 12:15:14 pm »

Quote from: Supermikhail
Then, I'm afraid I'll have to apologize to Fishbreat for my critique on his lavish dialogue tags

Vindication! Although I will admit that I toned it down after the first few times you mentioned it, since it was (in places) a little bit over the top, and moderation in talking fancy does lead to greater impact when I do.

Quote from: Supermikhail
@Fishbreath: Nice new "chapter". Hm, maybe it's been explained somewhere, but why did you decide to alternate between Anja, Rakel and Eirik?
About the commentary - I suspect that it's your becoming a better writer, because from what I've heard this thing grows if you work it out.

The alternation is so that none of them are out of the spotlight for more than three weeks. They'll eventually begin to interact more (massive surprise, I know!), at which point I think I'll feel more comfortable about airing chapters straight through from beginning to end.

Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #141 on: September 09, 2010, 08:30:59 am »

@Fishbreath: Another new chapter?
I'd like to ask if this letter is addressed to Rakel or the reader. I can't judge if it's realistic for Rakel to not know that gangs own the city, so if this information isn't highly classified, I'd be interested to find out... Which reminds me. Rakel still doesn't have a very distinct character, does she? I mean, one part down I should be able to judge, if only remotely, whether Rakel would know the hood, but I can't.
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Fishbreath

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #142 on: September 09, 2010, 09:36:59 am »

@Fishbreath: Another new chapter?
I'd like to ask if this letter is addressed to Rakel or the reader. I can't judge if it's realistic for Rakel to not know that gangs own the city, so if this information isn't highly classified, I'd be interested to find out... Which reminds me. Rakel still doesn't have a very distinct character, does she? I mean, one part down I should be able to judge, if only remotely, whether Rakel would know the hood, but I can't.

Three new chapters, all running simultaneously.

To Rakel, though I will admit that Henrik's role thus far hasn't been anything more than Mr. Exposition. The stuff about the gangs is sort of an open secret to anyone who lives in the Riverfronts. It's true that I haven't said much about her character, but the fact that Henrik thinks he needs to remind her does shed some light on the kind of person she is. <.<

Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #143 on: September 09, 2010, 10:03:47 am »

@Fishbreath: Another new chapter?
I'd like to ask if this letter is addressed to Rakel or the reader. I can't judge if it's realistic for Rakel to not know that gangs own the city, so if this information isn't highly classified, I'd be interested to find out... Which reminds me. Rakel still doesn't have a very distinct character, does she? I mean, one part down I should be able to judge, if only remotely, whether Rakel would know the hood, but I can't.

Three new chapters, all running simultaneously.

To Rakel, though I will admit that Henrik's role thus far hasn't been anything more than Mr. Exposition. The stuff about the gangs is sort of an open secret to anyone who lives in the Riverfronts. It's true that I haven't said much about her character, but the fact that Henrik thinks he needs to remind her does shed some light on the kind of person she is. <.<
Eh, I fear that even though I don't have to tell you that it's bad having a Mr. Exposition, and having to write an expository chapter to explain a character, you are still doing it.

In other news, the outline of my new endeavour topped two pages, and quite fittingly, this post on outlining has popped up on the screenwriting blog I'm following. In case somebody here has difficulty with outlining, as I'm having quite a kick out of it.
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Fishbreath

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #144 on: September 09, 2010, 10:39:31 am »

I never said it's merely an expository chapter. It is the case that I'm revealing more about Rakel; it's also the case that the plot is going to move forward some too. :P

Henrik's role as Mr. Exposition is one that's probably actually almost over, unless I need him to be the man bursting into the room with a gun. It's extraordinarily difficult to use characters who can see the future as anything more than bit players. >.>

Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #145 on: September 09, 2010, 11:29:39 am »

Jesus Christ, Fishbreath! How about an extraordinarily fascinating protagonist with the precognition gift? I wonder if you did your outlining.
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Fishbreath

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #146 on: September 09, 2010, 11:58:27 am »

Jesus Christ, Fishbreath! How about an extraordinarily fascinating protagonist with the precognition gift? I wonder if you did your outlining.

The problem with a prescient protagonist is that it takes one of two things: either a willingness to make the prescience useless or ineffective (which I don't have), or a willingness to very, very carefully plan out every detail of the story and work out what the protagonist knows (which I also lack). The most I'll ever do with one is something in short-story format.

Actually, since we haven't really had any responses to the current prompt and I'm very curious to see what you come up with, here's a new one:

Write a prescient protagonist.

Willfor

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #147 on: September 09, 2010, 07:38:21 pm »

I have a problem.

I want to make what I posted here into a novel.

._.

Anyway, about the writing prompt, I have actually written a prescient character as more than a bit player. It works very easily when fate is malleable by those who have the gift, and not everyone with the gift is working for the protagonist.
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Supermikhail

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #148 on: September 10, 2010, 12:26:30 am »

OK. First. Let me introduce to you Mr. Quay Li.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry, no empty paragraphs - that's the way I wrote it, and reworking it now is too much effort; and it's not like 20 (000) people read my previous reply, so those who are going to read this, are going to.

@Willfor: I don't see how it's a problem. There's nothing bad to writing a quick outline, except that you might realize that it's a much more rad concept than your current novel, and turn that into a shorter genre. Or otherwise. Or maybe they both deserve about 40 000 words. As I see it, it's kind of easy to determine, and I'd direct you to the link on outlining I've posted before. There's a section there about a TV series writer who says that the first thing she starts writing with is marking commercial breaks. Although, that's not the best analogy. What I mean is when you've outlined, count all the major events, and multiply the number by 2 000. If what you've come up with is less than 10 000, it's a short (it can get bigger or smaller, but you don't have to fret over it so much).

@everybody: I'm open for critique on my masterpiece. I know of a couple of issues, but I don't know how to amend them, so constructive, please.

@fishbreath: What's amazing to me is that the rough plot came to me about 5 minutes after I read your reply. And then I sat for about 3 hours (including Google research) typing, and couldn't tear myself off. I still have to determine what's the cause of my slowness (at least I think it's kind of slow), but at least I know what's the reason for my sleeping through my alarm every time - too much free creative spirit!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 03:53:37 am by Supermikhail »
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mendonca

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Re: Bay12 Writers Guild
« Reply #149 on: September 10, 2010, 01:51:41 am »

@Krelos

I liked the story. I particularly enjoyed the part when Barden was left in the cell, the build up to suspense got me, and I could really see the floor come alight when he sparked the oil on the floor.

@Supermikhail

Again, I really liked this. I was in the shop with those two. I'm not sure what critique I can personally offer as I did genuinely enjoy the writing and the 'arc'of the little story. There are a few (very) minor language things that seem a little 'off' throughout the piece (or maybe I personally would have just done it differently?) and if I had written the piece I perhaps would have dwelled on the interior of the shop a bit near the start, slowed the pace right down (even more) as Moretti and Quay Li were figuring each other out, but apart from that (which of course, you can take or leave) I can't offer any more, it was great.

@ bjlong

Thanks ... your critique is very insightful. I enjoy reading it - and also on reflection more often than not agree with you.

I am going to take the Grax story on a bit, have a play about with the genre and have the naive Goblin going on his trip North to see the Dwarves - Grax also finds out there is a recent history of Dwarven settlement in his own Dark Fortress and becomes awed / obsessed with the creatures.

The reason for the Dwarves toughness is probably due to Adamantine Armour, but not sure how this can come out later (maybe engravings?), because I think I intend the Dwarf Fortress to be overcome by Demons when Grax finally gets there, with his small gang of companions he picks up on the way. Perhaps the longer bit of the story is that he helps the Dwarves reclaim, but I'm not sure why he would be motivated to do that.

One encounter I have planned is an encounter with a wizard (obviously no magic though) who is trying to dig a well of misery by softening the ground with his tears and digging, but as he is in the Joyous Wilds of a unicorn-riddled forest, the only tears he can muster are ones of happiness. He'll probably try and fill it with Demon's Piss or something.
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