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Author Topic: Crime Focused Roguelike  (Read 56868 times)

Soadreqm

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #450 on: September 06, 2010, 04:07:51 am »

This hoax.

A guy calling himself CrimsonKing made a mockup of a serial killing game, and said he was going to release a playable alpha in like a month. A while later he admitted that the gameplay video was an outright fabrication, and he was not, in fact, making a game. That caught everyone by surprise, especially Dwarf mc Dwarf, to whom it's still a sore subject, apparently. Personally, I think it was a really good hoax, and we should all applaud the man.
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Medicine Man

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #451 on: September 06, 2010, 04:09:42 am »

This hoax.

A guy calling himself CrimsonKing made a mockup of a serial killing game, and said he was going to release a playable alpha in like a month. A while later he admitted that the gameplay video was an outright fabrication, and he was not, in fact, making a game. That caught everyone by surprise, especially Dwarf mc Dwarf, to whom it's still a sore subject, apparently. Personally, I think it was a really good hoax, and we should all applaud the man.
Actually I don't care, you probably didn't see the thread where I said that everyone should stop caring about it as CK probably wants that attention.
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tarsier

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #452 on: September 06, 2010, 05:32:45 am »

If there is enough heat / evidence, then meeting up with contacts (especially making arrangements to meet at X place at Y time) should have a chance to be spied on / bugged / ambushed.

Anyway, that's just a random tidbit.
What I present to you now is my ideas for the NPC mood system.

It needs to be established that every NPC will have an attitude and a mood.

ATTITUDES are the current relationship an NPC has with the PC. Attitudes range on this scale:
Bonded - The NPC is in a close relationship with the PC - they've been in some tough situations together, they are romantically involved, or they have taken some sort of sacrifice for one another. Whatever the case, they're looking out for one another. The NPC has the PC's back, is susceptible to demands and charisma checks, and will do their best to help the PC. The kingpin you've served for a year as a bodyguard - and taken a bullet for - is bonded to you.
Friendly - This NPC has probably formed some kind of rapport with the PC. She is easier to manipulate with charisma checks - She will act to help out the PC's cause, although she is generally going to put herself before the PC in any risky situation. It is easier to bring her mood into a more favourable status. The junkie who knows you've got the best cocaine in town - and whom you always sell it to for a fair price - is friendly towards you.
Amicable - This NPC is polite and a somewhat kind to the PC - he/she is slightly easier to manipulate with charisma checks, but isn't going to take a risk for the PC. The girl who works at the coffeeshop you frequent and is receptive to your flirting is amicable to you. (Of course, the whole girl/guy thing brings up the issue of sexual orientation - something that should also be given to PCs and NPCs alike.)
Apathetic - This NPC holds no favour or disfavour for the PC (or whichever NPC is in the PC's party.) No bonuses/minuses with charisma-based checks. A stranger is apathetic towards you.
Bothered - The NPC has a slight distaste for the PC. Predisposed to resist and sort of demand, slightly harder to bring their mood down to baseline, etc. The bouncer who you've tried - and failed - to fast talk your way past for the last ten minutes is bothered by you.
Angered - The NPC doesn't like the PC. Something has been done by the PC to harm the NPC, directly or indirectly. Charisma skills will have a tough time getting through to these NPCs - they don't want what you want. They are easily provoked to violence. The middle-aged man whose son's car now belongs to you (and he has an idea how THAT happened) is angered by you.
Wrathful - Some serious hate going on here. The PC has really messed up the NPC's shit. They are hostile and they will do what they can to make the PC's life harder. The cop whose partner you shot down in cold blood last month is wrathful towards you.

Attitudes are essentially a way to flesh out the usual "enemy/ally" classification of NPCs - people are complex, and things shouldn't be so black and white as they are in most games.

NPCs spawn with a certain random attitude towards the PC. Certain types of NPCs have greater chances to spawn with one than another. Charisma checks should influence these attitudes once the NPC sees/interacts with the PC.
NPCs should also have an over-reaching attitude towards each faction. These aren't as changeable as the PC/NPC attitude with charisma checks, as they concern a larger group and are formed by a greater number of experiences. However, a PC should be able to affect, to a degree, the "faction attitude" of a PC through some sort of charisma check - convincing the citizen that the Giarmo family aren't really THAT bad, for instance.
The average innocent bystander should have an evenly large chance to spawn with the attitude of either "amiable," "apathetic," or "annoyed/bothered." There should be a very small chance that they are either "angered" or "friendly." These initial values should be influenced by their "faction attitude," IF it is apparent that the PC is a member of said faction. (If the NPC is a criminal who hates cops, and the PC is wearing a cop uniform, then that's going to effect it. If your faction isn't so obvious, this may not come up at all unless it is somehow revealed through dialogue. Certain actions, too, could tip NPCs off to belonging to a faction - if the Giarmo family always cuts off the noses of their victims, and the NPC sees you cutting off a nose, they will assume you're a member of the family.)
Helping an NPC (healing them, killing their enemies, giving them gifts) will obviously "increase" their attitude (depending on the magnitude of the action, but generally slowly - you don't make friends over night), harming them (stealing from them, hurting their friends, hurting them) will "decrease" it. (Increase/decrease is a poor word choice but you know what I mean.)
Attitudes are invisible, meaning the PC will never see an NPC's attitude listed explicitly - instead, attitudes will reveal themselves by the actions and dialogue of NPCs.

Now, getting into moods. Moods are less of an NPC-PC relationship like attitudes, and are more like by-the-moment behavioural systems. There are several moods. An NPC will always have at least one mood, sometimes more (except if they're opposite - no NPC should be happy and sad simultaneously. I realize this is possible IRL but for determining game effects this is one area where a bit of blackandwhiteness is okay.)
An NPC's mood is probably visible via a perception check (one can tell when someone looks sad or pissed or afraid), whereas attitude is not as readable.
An NPC's mood effects not how they feel in relation to another, but what sort of action they are more likely to take.

There are several moods. Here are just some of them.
Suspicious - Security guards, cops on patrol, and doormen to criminal hangouts should by default be suspicious. They are on the lookout for trouble, and they're watching you as they pass by. Suspicious characters are harder to surprise and gain bonuses to perception checks.
Nervous - Occurring in conjunction with suspicious, a nervous character has heard a strange sound in the basement of his house. A nervous character faces a penalty to willpower checks - he is more likely to get scared or buckle under pressure.
Afraid - An NPC who is afraid is scared for the safety of herself or her friends or children. An NPC who is afraid is slightly less likely to attack (but when provoked, or with the right ATTITUDE, she certainly will, especially if there are other NPCs with which she has a high attitude around (ie she is likely to protect her children (This also implies that families need to be coded - they would function as mini-factions. DF has it, shouldn't be too bad to implement))). Because she is afraid, she is more likely to be intimidated, or threatened into doing something ("give me the keys to the safe and noone gets hurt"). Certain drugs should negate fear, and certain drugs (LSD, mushrooms) should have the potential to cause it.
Sexually aroused - Tying into sexual orientation (again, a characteristic that could - and should - easily be generated into every PC and NPC), gender, and charisma, an NPC who is sexually aroused is more likely to be manipulated by a character who is of the proper gender/orientation and is charismatic enough. Flirting, dirty-talking, etc. can be a good way to loosen someone up, and it should be possible to sleep your way into certain situations. Alcohol and amphetamines should increase the likelihood of this mood occurring.
Terrified - You just burst into his livingroom and fired a shot into the air - he knows you mean fucking business and so he's doing his best to run away from you. A terrified NPC will not fight unless cornered. Will do their best to flee. Difficult to manipulate due to their hysterical demeanour but certain intimidations should work or even be easier on terrified characters.

Anyway, those are just some examples of MOODS - perhaps I'll return to these later, perhaps you guys can work some out. However, there should be TONS of moods - happy, sad, drunk (not an emotional mood but could be thrown into the same general system), brave, vengeful (this one might persist over a long time, or might be immediate - you killed his dog in his yard and he's not letting it go unchecked), confused, distracted (fire alarms are going off, sprinklers are showering, what the hell is going on? penalty to concentration-based checks or tasks that take some time to complete), delirious (drug-induced, possibly, or just after witnessing a lot of trauma), excited, peaceful (smoking grass makes you lethargic, slow, and a lot less violent), shocked, the list goes on... each must have its own implications and game effects.
The MOOD of innocent bystanders is, by default, "calm" or something, maybe some times sad or happy or whatever for flavour.


I have a feeling most of this stuff would be fairly easy to code, and I think realistic emotions and attitudes such as these for characters are a must. A really in-depth character interaction system such as this would really bring a lot to the game, and would, I think, set it apart from most.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 05:34:18 am by tarsier »
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Lap

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #453 on: September 06, 2010, 07:40:40 am »

If you're not getting any responses about your ideas it might not be that they suck. To prevent things from getting totally messy and confusing I've resorted to only doing in depth discussion on the Crimelike forums. Anyways, if you have an idea that you haven't reposted on the forums please do.

I'll mostly try to use the forums and blog for updates. For now, I'll just say that I'm learning a lot more about the engine and it's limitations. I'm implementing destructible everything. If you have a building and you want in you can bazooka the wall if you somehow have one. I've also got lockpicking functioning. More in depth stuff on that will get posted on the CL forums.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 07:45:51 am by Lap »
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Xegeth

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #454 on: September 06, 2010, 03:54:41 pm »

I've just finished making a couple of tweaks to the inventory system, so what's the best way to submit it? I've basically added the ability for objects to contain other objects, overhauled the inventory screen to allow manipulating containers, and added volume based restrictions on how much can be added to a container. There's also a couple of new items to test out the system. At the moment, objects don't change their volume based on what's inside, but that shouldn't be too difficult to change later on.
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Kusgnos

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #455 on: September 06, 2010, 04:34:10 pm »

The mood stuff sounds pretty awesome. Maybe change the bothered to irritated or distasteful. But yeah, post the ideas in the forums. We're all more or less doing random stuff, spriting, mapping, or coding, and ideas that are set down will have a high likelihood of being implemented in the future, especially since having a base to work with would be very useful. The earlier tier idea is also interesting, though I'm ambivalent towards it. We can repost it to the crimelike forums and see how people like it.

FORUM! http://76.26.38.52/crimelike/
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Little

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #456 on: September 06, 2010, 04:39:48 pm »

I'm in for supporting this project as a text writer.
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Kusgnos

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #457 on: September 06, 2010, 05:22:35 pm »

Pirate pad's too big! Can't save more than 100 revisions. Do we make a new one, or should we get the stuff transferred onto the Forum?
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Jack A T

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #458 on: September 06, 2010, 05:26:51 pm »

Pirate pad's too big! Can't save more than 100 revisions. Do we make a new one, or should we get the stuff transferred onto the Forum?

A pirate pad is best for item descriptions.  Copy and paste the stuff we've got on it to a new one when it goes back up?
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MaximumZero

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #459 on: September 06, 2010, 05:28:13 pm »

As I posted on the other fora, I noticed a "Martial Arts" skillset. If you need someone to help with names or styles, I'm game.
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Lap

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #460 on: September 06, 2010, 05:45:51 pm »

I've just finished making a couple of tweaks to the inventory system, so what's the best way to submit it? I've basically added the ability for objects to contain other objects, overhauled the inventory screen to allow manipulating containers, and added volume based restrictions on how much can be added to a container. There's also a couple of new items to test out the system. At the moment, objects don't change their volume based on what's inside, but that shouldn't be too difficult to change later on.

I've been tweaking a lot of core stuff as well. Care to send me the inventory changes so I can safely merge them and upload to the SVN?

Pirate pad's too big! Can't save more than 100 revisions. Do we make a new one, or should we get the stuff transferred onto the Forum?

Everything besides the ASCII stuff should be moved to the forums. For now, I'm trying to figure out a good addon that well let use copy and paste ASCII onto the forums without losing all the whitespace.

Also, take it easy on the silly stuff. Serious stuff needs to outnumber silly suggestions 10:1, not the current 2:1 we seemto have going on the forums.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 05:57:43 pm by Lap »
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Kusgnos

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #461 on: September 06, 2010, 06:01:51 pm »

I made a serious faction, haha, based off of a real world organization. I'm not into the silly, but I think people have fun brainstorming silly things, so as long as it doesn't end up cluttering the game, it should be fine. I generally haven't made sprites for the silly easter egg items, since I figure if people want their silly ideas hidden inside the game, they should do the legwork on making it be.

EDIT: Also, made a favicon.
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Soadreqm

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #462 on: September 06, 2010, 06:17:13 pm »

I think silly things are just easier and more entertaining to think up. Small matter. As long as there are some usable suggestions among them, you can just cull the silly stuff. Nice icon, by the way.

As I posted on the other fora, I noticed a "Martial Arts" skillset. If you need someone to help with names or styles, I'm game.
I have no idea how realistic or detailed that's going to be, and I don't think anyone else does, either. Keeping things relatively simple might be good so the combat's approachable. You should draft a suggestion so we can bicker about it. :)
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Lap

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #463 on: September 06, 2010, 06:18:13 pm »

favicon's live. The silly stuff is fine an dandy and can easily be included, but when we only have like one serious mission idea and one or more silly ones we need to shift the priorities.

Throw detailed martial arts ideas into the combat section.

I've been seeing a lot of people PM me or otherwise ask how they can help without art or coding skills. There are so many sections that could use design suggestions. For example, there's zero ideas related to thievery at the moment. If you want to help, find a section that is kind of sparse and then think how you could represent that topic in the game. This is a rare chance to have ideas directly implemented into a game.

FYI, if the forums go down it's probably due to a storm. We also need to whip Deon and get him on the forums.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 06:40:22 pm by Lap »
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Kusgnos

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Re: Crime Focused Roguelike
« Reply #464 on: September 06, 2010, 11:11:12 pm »

For factions and the such, should we be able to use real-world names of gangs and corporations, or should we stick to wholly inventing them, or making similar names? I'm guessing similar.
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