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Author Topic: Marksdwarf wont get bolts  (Read 15654 times)

ChopperDave

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Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« on: August 31, 2010, 08:52:18 pm »

After the initial stack of bolts my marksdwarfs won't pick up any more. I can make a new marksdwarf and he will go get equipped with a quiver and get bolts but after he is done with those he will just be stuck on (cannot follow order).

There are bolts in stacks in the training grounds (not in bins). Archery targets set to train and set facing the correct direction. There are no pathing issues (no burrows forbidden doors, etc. My axedwarfs are happily training away right next to the bolts.) I even set a pile of arrows in one of the dwarf's rooms that he sleeps next to. They have wooden bolts set in the military screen with only train set on them. (Didn't work with T and C set either.) Plenty of quivers. None of the above are forbidden or dumped.

At least one of the dwarfs was forever swapping his quiver out for a new one for some reason but he seems to have stopped that. That one is also not wearing any of the armor I set for him but the other one is so I don't think that is the issue. Though the one with no armor has an empty quiver and the one with armor has no quiver at all so that doesn't make sense.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
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Give an elf a fire and he will be warm for a day. Toss him 20z levels into the magma sea and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Khift

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 09:08:48 pm »

I encountered this bug myself earlier; at the time I attributed it to having all of my bolts in bins, but that has later been shown to not be the cause.

If you still have the save while the marksdwarves are all locked up with no bolts in their quivers, try and upload it here ( http://dffd.wimbli.com/category.php?id=20 ) and post a link here ( http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=3106 ) so others can try and examine it. I made the mistake of not keeping a save with the bug active and, well, I wish I had.
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ChopperDave

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 10:10:09 pm »

Here is a link to the save. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3032
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Give an elf a fire and he will be warm for a day. Toss him 20z levels into the magma sea and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Khift

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 11:01:44 pm »

Thank you for the save! I'll take a look at it tomorrow to see if it's the same exact thing I encountered.

As a note, when I ran into the trouble I fixed the situation by moving the whole ammo stockpile to a new location. At the time I thought it was related to bins, so I made sure that the new stockpile wouldn't use bins, but that's now been fairly well debunked. Still, the act of dumping and reclaiming the bolts fixed the situation. I suspect the bug may have something to do with stockpiles; try just removing the stockpile underneath them (if there is one). If that doesn't fix it maybe make a new stockpile elsewhere and see if that works.

Hope this thing gets figured out soon enough. Marksdwarves are hard enough to deal with as it is without additional bugs interfering.
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ChopperDave

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 11:58:48 pm »

Looks like that did it. Made a new barracks for the military and moved the arrow stockpiles/target dummies. Still no bins and its working. Not sure what was wrong but that seemed to have fixed it. Thanks!!
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Give an elf a fire and he will be warm for a day. Toss him 20z levels into the magma sea and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

Khift

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 05:47:37 pm »

Okay, so I looked at the save and I'm not certain I saw the issue...

The first thing I noticed was that the marksdwarf squad wasn't active. I activated it and one of the two dwarves in it, Fikod, went to town immediately. The other dwarf, Shorad, wouldn't train at all, but I discovered this was because both of them were assigned steel crossbows and there was only one to go around. Changing the assignment to any material crossbow and unforbidding one of the wooden crossbows caused him to equip himself. I went ahead and deleted the rest of his uniform, too, just to speed it up (equipping can take a while, in my experience). Then he began to train as well. A short time later you were down to 50 crossbow bolts, so I set the Craftsdwarf shop to make more bolts. They continued to train for about a season, then I got bored and opened up Hell.

Anyways, what I DID notice was a bug thats been confirmed by several other sources -- once a dwarf uses his one assigned group of bolts the game takes for absolutely ever to assign him a new group of bolts and in the time he spends waiting for the equipment system to catch up to him he'll stand around with Soldier (Cannot follow order) as his job. Eventually the game does catch up and assign him a new set of bolts, he'll run off to grab them and use them all up and return to waiting patiently for the game to catch up to him again. It's crap and it definitely slows marksdwarf training, but doesn't stop it entirely, and as far as I know there isn't any workaround for it except to never use bone bolts -- bone bolts come in stacks of 5 while all others come in stacks of 25. With this bug in, that's a huge difference in time spent actually training.

In other news, another thing I noticed was your fort's absolutely ridiculous FPS. Year three and 100 FPS? Holy crap. I breached all three cavern levels and had two huge migrant waves... and still 100 FPS. I breached Hell and while at first FPS dropped to 10 because all the demons were stuffed into a single tile wide hallway with almost half the settlement also in with them, the steam beasts were spamming their dust attack and every unit in the hallway was smashing itself into the walls several times per frame. That slowed things down something awful. But once they got out of the hallway FPS shot right back up to 100 again.

Trying to figure out why your fort has 100 FPS on year three when I'm usually at 60 FPS by the end of year one... my only real guesses are either your much smaller layer count or the tile set. I'm using Mayday's tile set, but you're obviously using something else. Mayday's tileset seems to not only replace the different colored ASCII characters it also adds many new graphics entries while yours doesn't seem to, or at least not as many new entries. I wonder if that could have an effect? Alternatively, you have a total of only 57 layers from ground level to lowest possible level while my current map has 162... That's almost three times the space, but all of that additional space is just unmined rock -- we both have all the features, all the caverns, the magma sea, Hell underneath it, etc, and the same size embark (I'm guessing; yours looks like a 3x3 like mine is). I thought pathfinding was supposed to be the big drain? We'd have the same amount of pathfinding creatures and the same amount of open space to pathfind over, I just had a lot of extra empty space between features.

So, I guess I'll have to try a fort with a different tile set, and another fort with a much shallower amount of empty rock (assuming you can set that in worldgen parameters?) to see which it is that makes your fort three times faster than mine. Because holy crap, I really want that kind of speed. Playing at sub 10 FPS with an i7 processor is just lame.
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ledgekindred

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 07:40:06 pm »

By Armok I wish I knew how to get around this problem with archers.  I haven't had problems with the last couple forts but with this one they have gone completely insane.  I've deactivated and reactivated them.  I've remade and reassigned uniforms.  I've assigned them specific equipment.  I've disbanded the squad and put them in a new squad.  I've moved ammo.  I've moved clothes.  I've moved armor. I've done everything I can think of and what do they do?  They stand around in the stockpiles changing clothes over and over.  Put on shirt.  Pick up backpack.  Put on pants.  Take off shirt.  Go get shoes.  Take off pants.  Put on one shoe.  Drop quiver.  etc, etc.  When I station them or make them go guard a burrow, they do, but they go straight to work with whatever gear they've got on.  There's nothing quite like having your Champion marksdwarf standing guard with only a shirt, pants, one shoe and a crossbow.

What's driving me most nuts is that my Champion marksdwarf obviously was doing fine -- he's a bloody Champion Marksdwarf so he's shot a bolt or two.  But now I can't figure out why they won't even put clothes on.
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I don't understand, though that is about right with anything DF related.
I just hope he dies the same death that all dwarfs deserve: liver disease.
The legend of Reg: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65866.0
Atir Stigildegel, Legless Hero of Diamondrelic: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=83136.0

Khift

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 08:05:32 pm »

....that sounds exactly like what my current issue is. Like, to the T. When they're sitting there swapping clothes out, do they have Go To Archery Practice as their job?
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Gorjo MacGrymm

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 09:04:26 pm »

I have had this issues repeatedly, and after much testing, was able to narrow down the problem to ammunition assignment in the military screen.  If you look at one of your dwarves who might be training, set hit use only wood or bone.  Wait for him to start training, then check his ammunition screen.  You will notice that he has now "tagged" all ammunition, specifically, by name (ie 5 dog bone bolts, 5 cow bone bolts) for use, and now your other archer cant do anything, because the first archer has "claimed" all the ammo.  My test on this showed the ammount of ammo is immaterial.  The traning dorf simply claimed it all.  My workaround isnt a workaround at all.  I just no longer care about assigning ammo.  I instead just make freakin tons of it, of all different materials.  Seems to work better.
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ledgekindred

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 10:09:49 pm »

....that sounds exactly like what my current issue is. Like, to the T. When they're sitting there swapping clothes out, do they have Go To Archery Practice as their job?

Yeah, or whatever it is I've asked them to do.  I think they may occasionally cycle to Pickup Equipment and Soldier (cannot do work).  Unless I specifically tell them "GO THERE" then they drop everything they were doing and walk straight there with "GO THERE" as their job.  (Thank Armok they usually at least have pants on...)

As for the ammo thing, I thought about that too.  I've got 1000s of bolts of wood and iron sitting on the floor waiting for someone to pick them up and use them - thanks to my legendary metalcrafter and woodcrafter and about a dozen "make boltsx20" jobs queued up.  An entire 12x12 room assigned to nothing but ammo with no boxes with each tile holding a brand shiny new pile of 25 bolts.  (Someone else do the math, it's late here...)

Now my soldiers are acting weird and going AWOL and leaving their squads and I can't re-assign them.  I wonder if my fort isn't hopelessly bugged now.
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I don't understand, though that is about right with anything DF related.
I just hope he dies the same death that all dwarfs deserve: liver disease.
The legend of Reg: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65866.0
Atir Stigildegel, Legless Hero of Diamondrelic: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=83136.0

ChopperDave

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Re: Marksdwarf wont get bolts
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 11:47:03 pm »

I did what you said and got Fikod to train just fine. Minus the overly long wait while he thinks about picking up new bolts. The other one shot another stack of bolts and then went back to clothing swapping. He had a crossbow and a quiver full of bolts but he was still stuck in his room with (cannot follow order). Set them both to hammerdwarfs and they are happy little clams now. I'm going to wait to mess with ranged till the bugs get squished out.

As for the fps issues let me know what you find. I do keep all of my animals tied up or in cages so that might be some of it.
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Give an elf a fire and he will be warm for a day. Toss him 20z levels into the magma sea and he will be warm for the rest of his life.