Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Gangsta Spanksta]

I've outraged some elves trying to sell them Obsidian Short Swords.  They keep complaining about how that was once a beautiful tree?

[Karlito]

obsidian swords are just pieces of wood with bits of obsidian stuck in them.  Think this.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Karlito ]

[Gangsta Spanksta]

quote:Originally posted by Karlito:
<STRONG>obsidian swords are just pieces of wood with bits of obsidian stuck in them.  Think this.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Karlito ]</STRONG>

In that case, it should be called a Macahuitl instead of an obsidian short sword, especially considering that the Machuitl is used more like a club than a sword.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

BTW, if that's what a obsidian sword is, shouldn't the dwarf us club skills instead of sword skills to use it?

[Aquillion]

This keeps coming up over and over again.  While I don't think calling it a Macahuitl is a particularly good idea, perhaps the name should be changed to make it more clear?

Alternatively...  why does the game even allow us to try and trade wooden things to the elves?  Obviously, no player is going to do it deliberately if they know what it does (unless he wants to offend elves, I guess, but there are easier ways to do it.)  So when it happens, there are only two reasons:

1.  The player doesn't know that the elves get offended if you offer them wooden things.  In other words, this is a newbie-trap.  I don't think that that's a particularly good thing.

2.  The player doesn't know that that item in particular contains wood.  In other words, they've been screwed over by a badly-described item.  Again, I don't think that this is a good thing...  the player shouldn't have to fight against the interface.

Of course, it's an important "flavor" thing, but maybe if you have a highly-skilled diplomat or bargainer or whatever in your fortress, they could warn you that elves are offended by wooden things, and highlight them for you in the trade list so you don't choose one by accident?

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Well I think the problem is in the description.  It is called an Obsidian Short Sword.  I had actually already read the wikipedia article on Macuahuitl, before thinking I ran into a bug, when I was reading up on Obsidian.  The thing about Macuahuitl is that according to that article, the Spaniards called it a broadsword, and the article say it is used more like a club in combat.  The reason I didn't associate a Obsidian Short Sword with the article is because I thought the dwarves were carving a short sword from obsidian.  Anyway, if that sword really is a Macuahuitl then it really isn't a short sword, and a dwarf wouldn't use sword skill to wield it, since it is swung more like a club, despite being able to decapitate a horse.

[Red Jackard]

Didn't Toady want to avoid using real-world references for names?

[Asehujiko]

If toady wants to avoid real world references, why does df still have humans?

[Gangsta Spanksta]

The point is that it still isn't a short sword.  Also, another problem is that producing a obsidian short sword requires one piece of obsidian and *no* wood.  If it really is that weapon the wiki article is pointing to, then it would be mostly wood, with a few pieces of obsidian embeded in it.  Also, not requiring any wood for construction is misleading.  If it were to require wood, I would have made the connection, instead of assuming a valid possibility that the dwarves carved out a sword from obsidian.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Gangsta Spanksta ]

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by Asehujiko:
<STRONG>If toady wants to avoid real world references, why does df still have humans?</STRONG>

That is really not what I was talking about.

Edit: Seventh post down. http://www.bay12games.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=001216

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Gangsta Spanksta]

quote:Originally posted by Red Jackard:
<STRONG>That is completely irrelevant to what I was talking about.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]</STRONG>

out of curiosity, how is macuahuitl any more real world reference than short sword?  Both are weapons types, one is just rarer.  macuahuitl actually describes what the weapon is, a wooden club with sharp obsidian pieces embeded in it, capable of beheading a horse.  "short sword" does not describe the weapon.  Broadsword is a misconception that is closer.

[Red Jackard]

Where shortsword is a generic name for a weapon that anyone can understand, macuahuitl is a very specific Mesoamerican weapon name that no one would understand without looking it up?

PS. Where do you get the horse beheading broadswords from? Dwarves cannot wield weapons that large, hence the 'short' part of the name.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Poil]

Why not just call them obsidian clubs then?

[Hypcso]

quote:Originally posted by Gangsta Spanksta:
<STRONG>The point is that it still isn't a short sword.  Also, another problem is that producing a obsidian short sword requires one piece of obsidian and *no* wood.  If it really is that weapon the wiki article is pointing to, then it would be mostly wood, with a few pieces of obsidian embeded in it.  Also, not requiring any wood for construction is misleading.  If it were to require wood, I would have made the connection, instead of assuming a valid possibility that the dwarves carved out a sword from obsidian.

[ December 03, 2007: Message edited by: Gangsta Spanksta ]</STRONG>

Actually, atleast in the last version it did in fact use wood to create an Obsidian shortsword. I am not certain in the new version as i've never actually found Obsidian.

[Citizen of Erl]

I assume Toady wants to avoid culture specific names, which is why it's called Black Bronze, rather than Hepatizon.

Would Obsidian-Lined Club be better, perhaps? I admit, I don't know much about how Macahuitli were used, but my assumption was they they were more slashing weapons than clubbing weapons, which is the whole point of lining them with razor-sharp volcanic glass.