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Author Topic: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder  (Read 9927 times)

MaDeR Levap

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2010, 01:31:17 pm »

its really nice, but i see that he is selling prints based on a derivative work of someone else's intelectual property.
Hey troll, most (if not 99%) of professions on this world (including mine, obviously) have profit (as in money) from somebody else work without paying author of said work anything - completely legally[1]. So you are just bullshitting.

Want examples?

surely Mr. Denee should know better.
I am completely sure that he knows very well what he can do and cannot do.

[1] You know, "we are all standing on shoulders of giants" means goddamn something.
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barconis

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2010, 03:40:53 pm »

Toady's pretty laid back, and it's good publicity. I know Bronzemurder brought in a lot of people. I don't think he'll do anything.

I'm not sure there's much he can do. Very little of this is subject to Toady's copyright. There's the name "Dwarf Fortress", but that would be a trademark issue if the name was registered. There are dwarf names from the random name generator, which are awfully recognizable in form, so that might fall under something like sampling of musical riffs. Themes and concepts (like adamantine and a magma sea) can't be copyrighted, and I don't think there's much else in there that could support a lawsuit. Writing a story about using a piece of software and selling that story is not the same as writing a piece of software that looks like another piece of software and then selling that software.

IANAL, of course.

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Deon

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2010, 03:49:48 pm »

wow, i guess its a touchy topic and a lot of people have some real knee jerk reactions to it.  in general, it is fine to do things for fun.  it is not fine to profit on deriviative works.  if you're interested in how and why, feel free to read about it:

http://www.senlawoffice.com/exclusiverights/category/derivative-work/

anyway, it is completly up to Toady to enforce his copyrights.  arguing about it here can only help you to feel indigantly outraged, or smugly selfrighteous, or whatever it is that you want to get out of it.
Okay, I don't give a damn about any site which has "sen", "law" and "office" in it.

Honestly, you make a cool comic to publish it in a magazine. For people to see. They pay you some tips. Would you say "no thanks keep it"? Do you know how much does it cost? Almost nothing in comparison to someone's time. So it's not a profit, it's a waste. And yeah, it's a culture.

Now if a guy made a book based on DF and sold it worldwide, then I'd agree. But come on, it's a simple comic. No need to nitpick it :).

I was really amazed there're people like that in DF community :'(.

P.S. Oh wait, sorry guys. Now I see that it's only "puke" telling that, so there's no "people". I will just ignore this sad fact then :).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 03:53:28 pm by Deon »
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Bauglir

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2010, 06:21:07 pm »

-snip-
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 11:13:37 pm by Bauglir »
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Jake

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2010, 06:49:35 pm »

I did something not dissimilar a while back, a short story using my current fortress as a setting and keeping some DF-generated names, and put it up on a paysite. I emailed Toady to ask his permission before posting it and he said it was fine. Can't see any reason this is less fine, especially since they first appeared alongside a magazine article telling the whole world how awesome DF is.

And in any case, didn't the Toad himself once describe DF as a fantasy world generator? That would tend to limit his right to complain about people using it to save a bit of time when plotting out their identikit seven-volume swords & sourcery doorstopper epic, even if it didn't suggest that was exactly what he intended DF to be used for in the first place. Christopher Paolini certainly could have done with the help.
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V-Norrec

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2010, 01:05:26 am »

read, it was awesome, it gets +1 internetz and makes me want to start a story based off of a fortress. . . maybe on winter vacation when I can do a fortress justice.

Bloogonis

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2010, 01:26:40 pm »

Come on guys why are you all jumping on Puke's face about this, his statement has merit and as he says its up to Toady to enforce his copyrights, which means Toady has the sole discretion in weather he will allow others to use his work beyond what is legally stated.

that said the images he is selling are entirely his work. The story was his making because it was his actions in the game that lead to it all. If you want a term to throw around, his work is similar to Machinima so maybe Machomics and the written stories are Machiterature?

the only one that could have been looked at as a problem for the prints was "Strike the Earth" but since he used quotation marks he shows that he is quoting something (DF). As a member of the community I wish it at least had a note to bay12 site in some form for those who have no clue what this is made from. But I didnt see the magazine so I dont know if they had those notes in the article.
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MycoRunner

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2010, 03:58:56 pm »

I'd like to add my own opinion into the fray.

Firstly I commend all of you for avoiding a flame war and for being somewhat sensitive to other people's views.

OILFURNACE and BRONZEMURDER are devoted odes to Dwarf Fortress. The artist obviously has been somewhat inspired by the game and has enjoyed his pieces becoming somewhat popular (among the small minority of people in the world who know know and care about it).

They are pieces of art. They contain original work inspired by the game. He is not legally obligated, as others have mentioned, to pay the Tarn brothers any profit he might make. Did Andy Warhol pay Cambell's Soup a royalty? (no seriously, I don't know. Did he?)

As for whether it is RIGHT or MORAL for the artist to sell the prints: I find it commendable (as if anyone gave a shit what I think, hah) that people would want to rise up to defend the rights of Toady and his game. But we don't know how he feels about it. Most people creating an underground game would kill for free publicity, especially from a devoted fan who understands what Fun is.

So, the whole right/wrong argument is moot, enjoy the game and the OILFURNACE comic. :)
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 04:00:29 pm by MycoRunner »
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Sowelu

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2010, 05:49:38 pm »

underground game
The fact that it was probably unintentional makes it even better.
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Zebra2

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2010, 06:28:35 pm »

Come on guys why are you all jumping on Puke's face about this, his statement has merit and as he says its up to Toady to enforce his copyrights, which means Toady has the sole discretion in weather he will allow others to use his work beyond what is legally stated.

that said the images he is selling are entirely his work. The story was his making because it was his actions in the game that lead to it all. If you want a term to throw around, his work is similar to Machinima so maybe Machomics and the written stories are Machiterature?

the only one that could have been looked at as a problem for the prints was "Strike the Earth" but since he used quotation marks he shows that he is quoting something (DF). As a member of the community I wish it at least had a note to bay12 site in some form for those who have no clue what this is made from. But I didnt see the magazine so I dont know if they had those notes in the article.

Agreed. People are being super defensive about this. It's kind of a shame, the only statements in this thread that could be considered trolling or flaming aren't made by puke.

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Jackrabbit

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2010, 09:33:19 pm »

I just saw this on /tg/ and came looking for the thread. I love this, this is amazing. You're awesome, guy.
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Jayce

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2010, 08:45:45 am »

Dwarfs dont look very dwarfy,its also a spoiler.However the letter from the king was really funny.
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Kav

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2010, 09:39:34 am »

This is not specifically a derivative work as far as the law is concerned. You have a misconception of what a derivative work is. This is not even close. They are original illustrations. At worst they would be classified as parody works. The fact that the story being told was inspired by events that may or may not have happened in a game of Dwarf Fortress is completely and wholly irrelevant. The lot of you needs to stop pretending you know what you are talking about.

I am the son of an artist and have artist friends in several different fields. I know what I am talking about.

Neither is the legal department of whatever magazine these were published in full of chumps. No copyright infringement has taken place here and nothing the artist is doing is even considered unethical much less in any way not completely legal under any definition of copyright.

Stop spreading misinformation.
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MaDeR Levap

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2010, 10:26:01 am »

...Stop spreading misinformation.
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Jerkald

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Re: OILFURNACE: The Sequel (Sorta) to Bronzemurder
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2010, 12:38:04 pm »

Yay, I loved this.... was only wishing that batdwarf had more activity in the story.

Also, can you really drop a chunk of rock through an aquifer like that?  I would like a new approach because making a ton of pumps and stacking them up with windmills attached is a bit time consuming.
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