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[Soulwynd]

You EVE fanbois need to play Anarchy Online.

That joke was more sad than funny I think

I wasn't a joke. It was a hate post. =p

(Edit:
Certain things are sure in life; if you praise EVE, Soulwynd will go rabblerabblerabble at you.

Plus I've had infinitely more fun in AO than on EVE online, which made me drool from boredom while staring at the screen.)

[nenjin]

Yeah. That's like telling hamburger fans they should try veggie burgers. AO isn't complex, in teh slightest. It's one of the first major MMOs, and still reeks like a 1st gen.

EVE is complex by virtue of the player base, the world, and the ecomony. EVE takes player interaction to another leve, and allows for scheming, true alliances of self-interest and a lot of skullduggery. Unfortunately, it comes with all the bad stuff too. Like, scammers, account and PW hackers, forum espionage, and my favorite, paying RL cash for in-game gold, supported by the dev house.

There may have been one time I would have tried EVE...but after all the shennanigans involving CCP and guilds, I have no desire to play in a game world that is THAT polluted by real life cash and RL motivations. When ship specs can cost thousands of real life dollars, said game has gotten way too rich for my blood.

[Soulwynd]

It takes boredom to another level.

And unlike Yahtzee, I've been in corporations, I've had massive 0.0 fights, I've camped and been camped, I've been scammed and scammed people, it was still one of the most boring fucking piece of pathetic scam shit I've ever played. Granted, I crave it now and then, but mostly because I crave mmo space games and EVE is the most decent one there is for now.


Edit2: Oh dear. I'm an eve hateboi, I need to learn to press the ignore button in my mind when it comes to eve. >.<

*goes back to work*

[Ivefan]

It takes boredom to another level.

QTF - Played the trial, while reading a book =P

The game isn't really complex. It's more like it's the lack of restrictions in player/player interactions that can make it interesting.

[Puck]

You can see tons of veterans in eve who have playing for years and still havent grasped all the effects their actions have, so I'm pretty sure people who think eve isnt all that complex never properly lost their tunnelvision.

But meh, grampa simpson story:

I have a comparatively low RL income, so it always gave me a slight boner thinking that the ship I flew for solo piracy was worth about 700 euros if I had bought the ISK with RL cash. The "Smooth Criminal", a Rapier, had quite the goodies glued on to make it perform that awesomely.

Of course, like any other ship in eve, it was never a real solopwnmobile. It just gave me complete control over most situations. Or rather... it let _me_ choose with almost absolute control (until I screw up) in which situations I actually wanted to get. If it can kill me, I just dont let it touch me. If I can kill it, I got good chances to have control.

I remember once I was really really hungry for kills and I stalked a few guys til I finally had them pinned down. It was two frigs trying to kill a cruiser in a belt. So I pointed that cruiser, killed the frigs so damn fast they couldnt even think about warping off and then finished off the cruiser. Wait... I think I only got one frig, yeah. His buddy was fast enough to flee, but its still weird I even managed to kill that one frig without point.

The freaky shit was the Curse showing up on scan. Generally, empty cap means death, even for ships that dont need a lot of power, and a curse was my natural enemy. Normally that means you GTFO the second you notice the Curse is coming closer on scan, but I was so starved for a killmail, I thought I'd risk it. I tried to maneuver away from the expected warpin point of the Curse, but those fuckers got some range on those energy neutralizers, thats friggin unholy.

Long story short, OF COURSE I'm in his neutrange once he drops outta warp. The cruiser I was killing at that moment was ALMOST dead so I wasnt gonna leave quite yet. I started to fly straight up, didnt really have time to properly prepare an align, and BAMM there goes the first neut cycle, my cap is ALMOST dead. I feel my heart racing, thinking about the tasty theoretical 700 euro loss i was going to endure. The worst thing would be the humiliation and that amarr slaver scum getting mah tasty lootz....

So I turn everything off apart from the MWD, which I overheat, and let 'er rip, promptly climbing to about 3.5k/s or so. (Damn that thing was fast and nimble) Of course I lose the tackle on the cruiser, moving out of range and whatnot. But hey, remember the clueless people ratio of eve players? Sure enough that guy didnt notice me losing the tackle, and now I even remember why I picked that straight up direction, because I rarely ever did anything without any reasoning: I knew it was an ok direction to GTFO, initially , as well as it would reduce the transversal speed of my ship in relation to the target: My fat arties would get some nice and clean hits while I would try to run.

And well, it worked out perfectly, the next salvo delivered a punch that made the cruiser go pop buuuuut my cap was empty because the second neut cycle kicked in and I was in point range of the curse which promptly tackled me...

But this was all part of my heroic plan (not really) because I was already going so fast I could just point the nose in direction of my safespot, coast out of range (slow amarr fucker!) and warp off.

As soon as I hit warp, I cloaked and cycled safe spots, made a new, random one, and picked that to hide. Even with cloak enabled I wouldnt use semi safe spots (between celestial bodies or any warpable object for that matter) because I actually seen people drop outta warp close to such safespots without them ever actually having the option to probe me out there. I'm sure it was coincidence or the server "ticks" people through those warplanes somehow, but it happens. So ALWAYS make "true" safespots and even then, when you cloak, MOVE somewhere. You can never be too sure

Oh... and after that encounter, of course, I linked "still alive" in local.

edit:

And unlike Yahtzee, I've been in corporations, I've had massive 0.0 fights, I've camped and been camped, I've been scammed and scammed people, it was still one of the most boring fucking piece of pathetic scam shit I've ever played.

That's probably because you just listed the most boring activities (apart from mission running) one can persue in eve. Oh wait, maybe add mining and hauling to that list and you got them all.

[Soulwynd]

*whispers* I think we both just listed nearly all you can do in eve, apart from pirating¹ and that new exploration thing which is also boring.

¹-Pirating is always fun, even in eve.

[Puck]

*whispers* I think we both just listed nearly all you can do in eve

We're not even close....

You have to admit _for an mmo_ it's pretty sandboxy. I havent played "love" so I can only say I think the only mmo thats even sandboxier is "shores of laggeron". Which I like a lot. But I'm fairly confident, the pure ship on ship (or gang on gang) action will never be as thought out as in eve. But screw it, ship building alone is damn fun in SoL.

Anyway, unless the sand is full of dogpoo you cannot blame the sandbox for the lack of fun. And eve's sand is definetly not full of dogpoo (just a sprinkle of dogpiss here and there) but full of nasty kids. And THATS THE FUN PART. You just have to take your tiny little plastic shovel and hit them over their bratty little heads as HARD as you can, and then some. And then teabag their sandcastles! OR:

This one time, generally in the morning after the night of funky bacons eve radio show (which was full of the funnest contests and fleet actions I ever participated in) there was this DJ with his calm chillout trance music. Every other week he picked a notable and fairly safe spot in the eve universe and would hold a pilgrimage there, parking our ships, just chilling in space, listening to music and watching the beautiful background bitmap.

And this one time I had an awesome idea. As a projectile weapon based character I went out of my way to train large energy weapons 1, which I fitted on a tempest. Then I got some light shield drones and dropped some cargo cans in carefully selected spots around the scenery of that days pilgrimage gathering spot.

I ordered the small and fast shield bots to "repair" the cargo cans I dropped and then proceeded to shoot my own shield bots with the large lasers, counting on transversal and size making sure I never would actually hit them.

This was the birth of the first official lightshow ship in eve (amarr would always joke about it, but nobody ever really thought about the concept and made somehting out of it), and it yielded some pretty screenshots.

Some guy said, and I quote "Dude, this is like a Pink Floyd concert".

A bit later I said "It's not a party til the cops show up", targeted somebody (we were in highsec), shot him a bit, and got blown up by concorde.

The evening was complete.

[Thexor]

Wait, wait, wait... are we talking "most complex MMO" or "least boring MMO"? I think you'll find a lot of people that vote EVE for the former title... and I doubt there's any sane person that would nominate EVE for the latter title. 

Just to drop a little more fanboi-ism... EVE's the only MMO I keep going back to. I'll play for a few months, become bored with lengthy skill training times (passive training is great if you're not a hugely active player, but it starts to drag when you're playing several hours a day...), repetitive mission running, mining, etc., and I'll quit. And, sure enough, the depth of the game always pulls me back. Part of it is that EVE often sounds cooler than it really is - the sandbox style means there's the occasional bit of crazy-awesome that no developer could possibly have designed intentionally, like having corps torn apart by month-long undercover operations or incredible "how did I survive that?" moments. But for every one ultra-awesome instance, there's a lot of routine, boring stuff. And when you're not actively playing, guess what tends to get hyped up? (Hint: it's not the routine, boring stuff.)



Still, there is so. much. to. do that I can't think of any contenders for a more complex game. Seriously, just try playing with the economy for a while. A combat character sees the market as "where I get my ammo and replacement ships/modules." My last character is/was (my subscription actually timed out yesterday, weird coincidence) a manufacturer, and I saw the market in an entirely different light. It's that kind of layering, when you can have different players in professions where one job barely scratches the surface of the other, that really gives a game complexity (at least IMHO).

[Puck]

Even as a combat character I got tons of enjoyment out of the market. And if I hadnt, I probably would have had a harder time funding the habits.

I got blown up a lot, too, you know, and I loved almost every lightshow. The second you get attached to your stuff and it pains you to die, you know you should stop playing.

One time, after so many highsec ganks, CCP buffed concord. Dickmove, really. Every change that caters to the carebears makes eve less of what it always was and should be.

Anyway, funkybacon on his weekly radio show announced a contest that would be used to test out the new concord strength. We tried to gank a transport ship, and whoever would get the KM would get a shitload of money. So everybody KNEW they were going to die, but everybody had the chance to get rich doing so. The vibe of that event was awesome.

I had a hunch the occator would be unkillable under the new circumstances. so I built a ship that was designed to take out as many co-competitors as possible, which succeeded and banned me to lowsec for the next months. It was freakishly funny, and I even got a large part of the price money (nobody managed to kill the occator) because I made half the contestants angry and the other half laugh til they almost pissed themselves.

The seconds before I activated the smartbombs I was giggling in glee, like a little schoolgirl, gawddamnit that was fun. You cannot imagine how hard it is to sneak a battleship into the middle of a group of frigs and destroyers... (those people were trying to get the killmail on the occator using high ROF in the right moment, but I spoiled their evil plans!)

I'm not sure, but I think I got about 18 killmails in under 10 seconds, half of which were pods  Oh and along with the concord change came a harsher penalty in sec rating drop for criminal acts, which made everything even more fun. I went from +3.something to -8.something in one go 

[a1s]

I'm surprised noone has made the argument, so I guess I'll have to: Real Life is the most complex MMO you'll ever find!
No HP/XP/MP/any other kind of P (well ok, there is pee... and peas, but that's beside the point), No HUD, and stat screens are only made by the players. It's not so much complex (though the depth of simulation is incredible!) as it is confusing. The player-base is very broad and there are many good guilds (China is popular, Sweden is N00B friendly), joining one is a must, but choose wisely, as changing guilds is a pain in the behind. And most guildleaders are power-drunk creeps. The gamewolrd is persistent, but permadeath ensures you will never be that far behind in the Rankings. Subscription is free, and you are encouraged to bring new players in once your level high enough.

[Puck]

Subscription is free, and you are encouraged to bring new players in once your level high enough.

Most of us want to go premium (ie, sleep inside and have food), and those rates are STEEP, I tell ye.

But their graphics and physics engine is nothing short of astounding, you have to give them that. Altough gravity can be a real bitch sometimes, imho.

[nenjin]

I'm surprised noone has made the argument, so I guess I'll have to: Real Life is the most complex MMO you'll ever find!
No HP/XP/MP/any other kind of P (well ok, there is pee... and peas, but that's beside the point), No HUD, and stat screens are only made by the players. It's not so much complex (though the depth of simulation is incredible!) as it is confusing. The player-base is very broad and there are many good guilds (China is popular, Sweden is N00B friendly), joining one is a must, but choose wisely, as changing guilds is a pain in the behind. And most guildleaders are power-drunk creeps. The gamewolrd is persistent, but permadeath ensures you will never be that far behind in the Rankings. Subscription is free, and you are encouraged to bring new players in once your level high enough.

Hilarious. No one has ever made that joke before.

[Thexor]

Frankly, RL is one of the worst MMOs out there.

• You're still totally visible while 'asleep'. You can be murdered, or worse, your stuff stolen, all without being able to respond.
• Leveling is easy; actually getting decent stats out of those levels is a real pain. Odds are, you'll end up with a character that's horrible at combat, and it's nigh-impossible to respec.
• Speaking of combat, recovery is tough. Sure, you gain the ability to sit down fairly early, but it hardly does you any good. If you lose even a few hit points, it takes ages to heal, and food is apparently bugged so that it won't work.
• The penalty for death is a real bitch, or so I've heard.
• And, worst of all, the bloody game suffers from serious physics glitches.

[Puck]

• And, worst of all, the bloody game suffers from serious physics glitches.

wait a sec, that is munchhausen style... it doesnt work, its faked, innit? I'm sort of ashamed I even have to ask...

[Hugehead]

No way that's real, there is amost as much weight in the handle as there is in the head, and that still doesn't explain how the ruler doesn't tip, the center of gravity is outside the edge of the board.