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Author Topic: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss  (Read 16565 times)

jei

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Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« on: September 15, 2010, 07:08:53 pm »

I suspect that blood spatter is what has been lagging all my forts thus far. There's nothing else to explain the FPS going steadily down as much no matter what I do.
Is there a way to turn off blood spatter altogether for Linux or wipeout the savegame/fort/embark area clean of it?
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Engraved on the monitor is an exceptionally designed image of FPS in Dwarf Fortress and it's multicore support by Toady. Toady is raising the multicore. The artwork relates to the masterful multicore support by Toady for the Dwarf Fortress in midwinter of 2010. Toady is surrounded by dwarves. The dwarves are rejoicing.

FleshForge

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 07:15:47 pm »

Compile dfhack for your version of linux ...
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Arekis

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 07:28:49 pm »

Yup, it definitely kills your fps.  I have a fort that only has 25 dwarves and a forgotten beast that covered a massive underground lake in piles of extract (possibly several beasts with several layers of gunk).  I ran the dfhack utility and saw my fps double.
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Black Bellamy

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2010, 12:02:06 pm »

Too bad dfhack doesn't clean off the spatter on the items themselves. 
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jei

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2010, 12:21:31 pm »

I think this bug needs a proper bugfix from Toady and not some seedy cheats and hacks coming from outside. -- I don't want to use cheat programs just to be able to play the game and I don't think they work for .13 yet anyhow. There exists a bugreport for excessive blood spatter already, but it is marked as low priority. -- Could someone change it to a higher priority? The performance loss gets ever worse and I think it effects everyone who manages to run their fort for any significant number of years.

Currently all my games become unplayable withing a few years of first major bloodshed, despite varying things, play style and performance options.
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Engraved on the monitor is an exceptionally designed image of FPS in Dwarf Fortress and it's multicore support by Toady. Toady is raising the multicore. The artwork relates to the masterful multicore support by Toady for the Dwarf Fortress in midwinter of 2010. Toady is surrounded by dwarves. The dwarves are rejoicing.

Khift

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2010, 12:39:58 pm »

I am starting to suspect blood spatter as my major cause of FPS loss as well. In my current fort I've dropped from 100 to 35 FPS in one year; in that time...

- Dwarven population was reduced from 78 to 69
- Free roaming animal population was reduced from ~30 to ~5 (not counting wild animals)
- Amount of flowing liquids reduced from one large water reactor (8 water wheels) to one small water reactor (3 water wheels). Additionally had some small flow going on in a semi depleted magma pipe the year before which is now gone.
- The first usage of the garbage atom smasher occurred, smashing approximately two thousand raw stone to no effect on FPS.
- Much blood was shed, and now large quantities of the fortress are covered in blood and nearly all animals and dwarves have blood coverings on them.

I honestly can't stand to play this game any more with how FPS suddenly drops like this and absolutely nothing I do helps. None of the FPS increasing tips do anything at all. Flowing water doesn't affect my FPS. Caging hundreds of loose animals doesn't affect my FPS. Destroying massive quantities of stone doesn't affect my FPS. But something does, and does fiercely, and I'm honestly suspecting it is this blood bug. That bug, and the fact that I did mine some more during the year, are the absolutely only factors I can even think of which occurred and could decrease FPS. I'm getting sick of it, extremely sick of it.
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Leonidas

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2010, 01:25:38 pm »

Can't the dwarves clean up the blood?

In the old version, I think that blood disappeared automatically with the season change.  Does that no longer happen?
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Psieye

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2010, 01:34:05 pm »

There exists a bugreport for excessive blood spatter already, but it is marked as low priority. -- Could someone change it to a higher priority?
This is a common misconception: Toady doesn't even look at the priority setting as that's set by the users. He has his own system for figuring out what bug to work on next so putting it to "higher" priority is meaningless except as baseless propaganda.

Quote
None of the FPS increasing tips do anything at all.
You've completely neglected to mention anything about the two largest sources of FPS loss: (decaying) items and pathfinding. Is your fort pathfinding friendly? Do you produce excess food and trade goods? Are you getting rid of all that damn silk which goblins keep bringing?
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Congrats, Psieye. This is the first time I've seen a derailed thread get put back on the rails.

Deathworks

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2010, 01:44:01 pm »

Hi!

I am not quite sure whether blood decay has been re-implemented in the recent versions. It was gone for a while, that I am sure of.

Dwarves will clean up 3x3 tiles worth of dirt centered around an underground tile (meaning a tile that has never been exposed to sunlight). However, not all dwarves are eager to do so (in my fortresses, usually the nobles who are to meet liaisons and diplomats suddenly start a cleaning spree the moment the person they ought to talk to shows up).

Blood on the surface will be destroyed by rain (any tile hit by a rain drop will be cleansed of all blood that is there).

Thus, surface tiles which are now covered by a ceiling can not be cleaned in any way (short of removing the ceiling).

Also note that creatures cleaning themselves at a water will simply drop the dirt on their body on the tile they are standing - so if they clean themselves at an outside water source, you may face similar problems as with any outside contamination.

The main approach to handling the issues is thus placing everything that is likely to attract blood (hospital, butcher's shop, refuse pile for corpses) underground with enough underground tunnel between it and the first surface tiles that it doesn't get out of hand.

I also recommend placing the entrance to the fortress into an underground tunnel so that you can clean up after any sieges more effectively (at least I prefer a tunnel as you have with igloos, together with some nice weapon traps).

Deathworks
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Khift

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2010, 02:14:34 pm »

Quote
None of the FPS increasing tips do anything at all.
You've completely neglected to mention anything about the two largest sources of FPS loss: (decaying) items and pathfinding. Is your fort pathfinding friendly? Do you produce excess food and trade goods? Are you getting rid of all that damn silk which goblins keep bringing?
I do not produce trade goods. I trade mechanisms when traders arrive and I actually trade with them.

I have about three year's worth of food stocked up now (given this population). It's all in stockpiles, with plenty of space left.

Most goblins die from my magma hallway. Their clothing is eliminated. Some have died outside due to trader guards, but I would estimate less than ten so far have died outside the magma trap.

With regards to "pathfinding friendly", no such thing exists. It's all bullshit people have come up with to try and explain why some forts run faster than others. No test has ever successfully proven that any style or form of fortress is more "pathfinding friendly" than others. The only verifiable fact ever found is that crowded one tile hallways are poor for both dwarf moving speed and FPS, and I have very few of those. Ramps vs. stairs? Some tests show one, others show the other. Many show no difference at all. Vertical vs. horizontal? Same thing. Wide open, or with defined traffic pathways? Same thing. The pathfinding algorithm isn't even understood fully. We can't possibly begin to design our fortresses around it and anyone who claims to know how is full of it. We don't even know if the pathfinding algorithm treats diagonals as one step or 1.4 steps, let alone anything more obscure.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:20:26 pm by Khift »
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Gearheart

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2010, 02:36:00 pm »

Oh man so that's why my fps is dead?

I guess I shout use dfclean more than once every few years.
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Hyndis

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2010, 02:57:33 pm »

Can't the dwarves clean up the blood?

In the old version, I think that blood disappeared automatically with the season change.  Does that no longer happen?

Blood/vomit is no longer removed at the season change. It can only be cleaned by raindrops hitting that tile, or underground if a dwarf decides to clean it. Cleaning is an extremely low priority job, even lower than being idle apparently.

While dwarves tend to do a decent job of cleaning up areas around meeting zones they will not clean up blood all over the map, and so spatter multipliers into rivers of blood coating everything, with hundreds of layers of blood from each and every goblin killed.
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Black Bellamy

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2010, 03:39:09 pm »

I don't want to use cheat programs just to be able to play the game

The game is in alpha release, so what kind of "cheating" are you doing exactly?
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telarin

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2010, 03:55:51 pm »

Oh man so that's why my fps is dead?

I guess I shout use dfclean more than once every few years.

The problem with dfclean is it only removed contaminants from tiles, which is usually only a very small portion of the contaminants in a fort. Start looking through at your dwarves and items that they are wearing, were wearing, or were hauling around at some point. You will find many of these dwarves and/or items can have many pages of contaminants listed. Multiply this by potentially hundreds or thousands of such items, and it quickly outweighs the contaminants on the floor. That being said, dfcleanmap does help some, but it would be nice if we either had a laundry mechanic to clean things us legitimately in game, or a utility to scrub everything down.
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Leonidas

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Re: Blood spatter = steady FPS loss
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2010, 04:17:12 pm »

If the dwarves can clean up the blood, then it's just a labor allocation issue.  If water can wash away the blood, then it's an engineering issue.

I suspect that Toady has big plans for the Cleaning labor.  It was always on the labor list and turned on by default, even back in the 2D auto-clean days when it served no discernable purpose.  Soap-making also goes back to the 2D days, even though it was useless for years.  Now death by infection stalks the hospital, and the medical model is much more detailed.

I think that Toady will eventually hit us with Plague, hopefully treatable by Golden Salve or some such, but mostly preventable by soap and lots of cleaning.  It's historical.  It's realistic.  And it would be a Fun challenge for large forts with high population density.
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