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Author Topic: Civilization V  (Read 46206 times)

Mech#4

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #555 on: March 28, 2014, 03:48:48 am »

I would be interested, though I'm not the best at the game nor do I own either of the expansions.
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Shadowlord

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #556 on: March 28, 2014, 07:37:53 am »

It's nowhere near as good without the expansions.

One notable problem with Pitboss is that players who have more DLC than the game was started with end up with a bug which stops them from building certain buildings (Shrines, for instance) unless they deactivate that DLC or remove it from the DLC folder. Their copy of the game, presumably, is loading up DLC that it shouldn't be loading up, and it's ending up with some of their buildings having different ID#s because of the added buildings from the DLC.

One advantage of Pitboss is that you can set a turn timer (such as 48 hours) so that the game continues even if players neglect to take their turn, and it can email you to tell you that you have a turn, although it isn't 100% reliable at it (it failed to email me once out of 50 turns, and other people in the game have said it failed to email them as well, I think).

Another issue is that Pitboss is running a full copy of Civ V, which means it's impractical to run it on the same computer you are going to play on, although you can run Steam in offline mode for it (but doing so means it can only do email notifications, not steam notifications (for new turns)).

An alternative to Pitboss is Giant Multiplayer Robot, which supposedly lacks the problems that Pitboss has, but also doesn't have simultaneous play (you have to take your turns in a specific order), which means it would take even longer to complete a game with it. I haven't personally played any games with it, so I don't know if it has any issues like Pitboss does.
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HopFlash

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #557 on: March 28, 2014, 08:41:50 am »

Giant Multiplayer Robot sounds good. Would love to test it out. (missing DLCs etc. will ever be an issue as those savegames cannot work right I think)

I must say that I never trust simultaneous turns and I have usually no problem with long plays.

If anyone has experience to lead such a multiplayer game it would be nice to join :)
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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #558 on: March 28, 2014, 09:26:10 am »

You know, I think it could work as a hybrid Civ game/Forum diplomacy game.
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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #559 on: March 28, 2014, 10:07:14 am »

I just created a thread in Play With your buddies on a Multiplayer Game. Currently we will be playing with both Expansions and no DLC, but this can change if we get enough requests in the thread.

Shadowlord

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #560 on: March 28, 2014, 10:29:25 am »

You know, I think it could work as a hybrid Civ game/Forum diplomacy game.

Sure. The one I'm playing via Pitboss is with folks that I'm in an IRC channel with. It may be a while before everyone meets, though (especially on larger maps).
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #561 on: March 28, 2014, 11:12:09 am »

So my Celtic game is going well. I was just sort of muddling along for the middle ages, doing ok but not really great. But then I really started to hit the science buildings and I decided to go for a science victory. Skyrocketed up from being always 2nd or 3rd to hit a new Era to becoming the Technological Master of the world.

My continent had three Great Powers on it. Myself, Carthage, and France. Somewhere around 1700 or so I think Carthage finally defeated Paris and had conquered the entire French empire. They then turned their attention to the City States of the continent. When they were harassing the ones up near their end of the continent I didn't care too much. Carthage and I had been friends for a long time, so while I donated a few unwanted units up there to slow them down a bit I didn't really get involved. Then they attacked Quebec. Quebec was one of my neighbors, and the main buffer between their part of the continent an mine. That...I wasn't so happy about. Still wasn't willing to go to war with them over it, but I put a more concerted effort into giving Quebec some advanced units that were better than anything Carthage had. It helped a lot, but it wasn't enough, and Carthage simply overwhelmed them with sheer numbers of riflemen, cannons, and knights.

Now I'm concerned, as it's obvious my old friend has serious conquest goals in mind. I don't have a large army, but what I have is pretty advanced. So in preparation for what looks like trouble I build up my military apparatus a bit (Armories and the like) while continuing my rapid tech advancement. I decide to grant protection declarations to the other city states near me (Monaco and Lisbon) that I wasn't already protecting (Budapest).

Carthage then sets her eyes on Budapest. Budapest has been my Ally for probably thousands of years at this point. When she declares war on them I simply Demand that she stop, which ticks her off a bit. We'd already had strained relations a bit with her extorting money from Monaco. Not quite ready for open war myself I start throwing Infantry and Machine guns over to Budapest, who is able to stave off the Carthage advance. She gives in and makes peace with them.

A few turns later, she declares war on me. Bad move.

My opening attack was a bomber run on some cannons of hers. Followed up by Artillery strikes, an Infantry engagement, and some Tanks that simply rolled over her Riflemen. It took a few turns, because Carthage had a lot of troops, but after a bit Quebec was Liberated and she's suing for Mercy.

Mercy? Nah. You started this, Dido, you get to reap the rewards. I've got full WWII tech at this point. You're stuck back in the Civil War. You had fun sinking my old Caravels? Fine. We'll see how you like dealing with my Battleship.

I think I'm gonna go liberate Paris now.
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Satarus

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #562 on: March 28, 2014, 12:36:11 pm »

With all those liberations, you should do fine getting a diplomatic victory.  Resurrected CS and players always vote for their liberator.
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woosholay

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #563 on: March 29, 2014, 03:24:26 pm »

I'm still butthurt about civ 5 running better than 4, but being completely inferior in terms of mechanics and gameplay, especially if you throw in a couple of good mods (caveman2cosmos and such).
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Culise

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #564 on: March 29, 2014, 08:22:44 pm »

Why?  Leaving aside the implementation of lessons learned from 4, its relative simplicity is part of the reason Civ 5 runs better than 4.  Even then, though, Civ 4 isn't that bad.  Civ 4 loaded down with some of the larger mods may be slow enough that I tend to keep a book next to me when I'm playing late game ROM:AND, but vanilla Civ 4 isn't all that bad.  If you strapped all that complexity onto 5, I wouldn't expect to be that much faster. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 08:25:05 pm by Culise »
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Astral

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #565 on: April 03, 2014, 02:04:36 pm »

Did anyone catch the 30 minutes of fame for the mod Blizzard Allstars for Civ 5? Some guy had pretty much gone in and ripped sound, models and textures from Starcraft, Starcraft 2 and Warcraft 3, then thrown them into Civ 5 with the premise of playing as Zerg, Terran, Protoss, Human, Orc, Undead or Night Elf. Adding to this was the building of Heroes, which could game normal promotions or get special ones that increased their abilities, and they could equip items which gave them different abilities as well.

It was fairly early in the mod's lifecycle and a bit rough around the edges, but it made it to Monday before Blizzard took it down, and had even made a PCGamer article Thursday of last week.

I'm sorta sad, really, as it had a lot of potential, but Blizzard couldn't stand having something that
A) Took a bunch of resources from their games
B) Was a free modification of a game they didn't own
C) Took some fame from their upcoming, doomed to fail copy of DotA 2/League
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Shadowlord

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #566 on: April 03, 2014, 03:56:56 pm »

I noticed it on the workshop, but ignored it because I had no interest in having blizzard in civ.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #567 on: April 03, 2014, 04:09:11 pm »

I noticed it on the workshop, but ignored it because I had no interest in having blizzard in civ.

Same.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #568 on: April 17, 2014, 09:56:29 pm »

BELATED INCOMER'S MEGAPOST!

Ah, well yes you need to buy multiple copies to play multiplayer online. Why wouldn't you?
Civ I-IV could be played in multiplayer hotseat, with just one copy of the game Well, I know II-IV could be, and assume I had this functionality as well.

Another change is that cities will resist hostile invasion even if undefended.
Which is a decent enough idea, but when the cities are tougher and faster-regenerating than military units...well, it's easier to destroy a fleet of tanks than to capture a city.
That* is probably my biggest complaint about Civ V, with "no unit stacking" coming in as a close second. Naturally, the problems aggravate each other, with no unit stacking making it hard to concentrate much firepower on a city and the city issues making it hard for my unstacking units to advance further into the enemy empire.
*The implementation issues specifically mentioned, not the concept.

Another nice new addition: You no longer have to faff around with transport ships. Once you research Optics, any unit can move out into shoreline tiles, and another tech lets units cross oceans.
Now these units are defenseless on the water, so must still be escorted.
Regardless, I do like this. Probably my favorite feature of Civ V.
What I like less is that point when I have ships which are less effective at sailing than horsemen.

compared to what civ 4 was to civ 3, civ 5 seems to be an huge leap for the series.
Hell, compared to (what I remember of) Civ II to Civ IV, it's a huge leap.
I can't help but wonder how much of to was changed just to change it.

Between all these disparate alterations, Civ V is going to be the biggest departure since Alpha Centauri.
From what I know of Alpha Centauri, I'd say Civ V's change is bigger.

Only thing that really has me concerned is The Great Wall. Apparently it slows people in your cultural borders, which is absolutely overpowered since it apparently never obsoletes.
Nor does it make sense.

Muz, that's not really fair. You're comparing games made with the limitations of 1991 and 2000 to games made in 2010.
That's part of it, but I daresay that anyone who started being in the business a couple decades ago could stand to have some new blood and thought mixed into his game designs. If nothing else, it prevents the typical "the same with better graphics" complaints.

You get one and frankly I never liked how wonders became obsolete too much anyhow. Not for strategy reasons but for "I built it, why are you taking it away?" reasons.
Though Civilization has sometimes boiled down to the Civ that managed to get a Wonder since for some you could combo Wonders to advance many times faster then your opponent.
I think you answered your own question.
Obsolete Wonders mean that it's that much harder for the civs that dominate early on to continue to dominate later, that much easier for lesser civs to catch up.

As for making it useless. An alternative that I would have liked is if its ability lessened or changed. I mean sure Shakespeare's theater is no longer relevant (Ignoring that it is the most anti-historical wonder in the entire series) but maybe later on it should increase chances of a cultural great or spread culture.
IIRC, obsolete wonders still give Culture.

Well, what I was getting at is "building the Great Wall means establishing a cultural heritage of defense against outsiders, which presumably will continue to use additional technologies as they become available".

I mean, even in previous Civ games, once you built the Great Wall it's not like it instantly appeared along certain tile boundaries, and then stopped protecting outer cities once you expanded.  Wonders are mutable over time, they're symbolic.
No, Wonders are one, single thing. Patterns are what you're talking about. A civilization that makes it hard for enemies to get through is one thing; a civilization that builds one great wall is another.

Yeah, the 1 unit per tile limitation in the new civ has made choke points a key to defensive victory.
On the other hand, it makes it impossible to take cities unless you can get really strong units to the front lines. And makes moving troops to the enemy a hell of a lot harder. If I wanted war to require micromanagement, I would play Dwarf Fortress instead.

Hot-seat games were always good fun.  We chose that over LAN most of the time.
Indeed. It's also helpful if you only have one computer.

It's actually possible to play hotseat? How do you guys handle that phase when someone inevitably messes up early on and wants to restart? The initial "end turn" phase always felt like way too much of a grind for me.
We dealt with it. Usually with one guy checking that the others didn't want to fiddle with anything and hitting End Turn.

I do not think cities are that hard to take over, you just need to bomb the crap out of them and support your ranged attacked with melee units. I was in the modern era last night, assulting a country across the sea. My ships cleared the beaches for my ground units, my ground units cleared the anti aircraft for my interceptors, my interceptors cleared the interceptors for my bombers and my bombers blasted the cities for my ground troops. It was awesome.
1. It's not hard, sure, but it's a pain.
2. What about pre-airplane wars? Or land wars?

the introduction movie looks great!
That it does. It's sometimes almost impossible to tell that it's CG.

The combat is far and away better than the stack rush of Civ 4, and probably the most improved feature. Position, movement and variety of units actually matter somewhat. Unfortunately the AI seems unable to deal with it (but we all know how unreasonably hard decent tactical AI is).
And, of course, most players have about the same level of knowledge in how to deal with it. I'm still not sure how one can wage war in a timely manner, and it's a pain to manage war when taking a single city takes a dozen turns at best.
...So I guess it wouldn't be so bad if undefended cities weren't so tough.

Quote
The other major improvements from my brief playing are the new social system replacement for civics, you get much more choice and each choice is minor enough than most aren't 'must haves' but it's all about how they synergise (that's not even a word is it), and the streamlining of the happiness / tax / research systems.
IMHO, the inability to change what social branches you grow is a bit of a pain, as is reducing the link between social policies and what they represent in a simulationist sense.

How many real-life countries have ever controlled that much land?
There's Australia, of course. But that's the smallest continent, the most sparsely-populated, and between almost nonexistent soil fertility, its arid climate, and its infamous wildlife, Australia is objectively the second-worst continent to live on (it beats Antarctica by a wide margin, but well...it's Antarctica). So there's that.

Fun fact: Canada is bigger than the US. The US is "only" the third largest nation (by land area).

My only objection to that is that the song does have lyrics already, they're just not in English.
Bugs me too.
Of course, being just the Lord's Prayer in Swahili, they're not original lyrics, but...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I. HATE. THE. RNG!!!!

So here's the story. Large map. Continents. Epic mode modded so that research is 175% longer instead of 125%. 15 civs. 13 civs spawned on one continent (and the small islands around it). 2 civs spawned on the other one. I'm on the one with the 13 civs.

So for 500 turns (1880 AD), the 13 of us were duking it out over our reasonably large continent and surrounding islands. We only just researched riflemen. Then all of a sudden, Iroqouis helicopters and mechanized infantry start landing all over the goddamn place and killing every one of us. When I went to check how the bleeding heck the Iroqouis could do such a thing, turns out they had FOURTY (40!!!!) cities on the other continent after wiping out Washington. To compare, the max any of us had at the time before the invasion of doom was 10.

500 turns and 16 hours completely wasted :(
That's hilarious.

That sounds rather cool though.
Like if no one had discovered America and Europe kept fighting amongst itself and then the Aztecs nuke everyone.
Wouldn't have happened. The Americas are just too low indomesticable species and are too north/south aligned to allow for rapid transmission of crops and ideas and such. Eurasia would always have had the edge.
And if I had to pick any of the Pre-Colombian civilizations to be the likeliest to advance to that state, I'd go with the Inca.

To be fair, that's just exactly what happened in real life, except the Iroquois started in the other continent.
And the invaders weren't a quarter as unified.

From a game design point, this railroad/harbor thing is kind of dumb, but I really don't know a good way to fix it. Give harbors more upkeep when railroads are discovered? Make the bonus reliant on building some other building you create after railroads are invented that has a bigger upkeep?
Make the game only give the special railroad bonuses to cities connected by rails?

Different in Alpha Centauri though. Associated a lot of "human" qualities with Lady Diedre if you know what I mean.
...I thought I did, until you added "if you know what I mean".

I'm not sure how much I agree with you there. Playing as the Hive, I often found myself allied with Zakharov, feeling that we're similar enough in means though we may have different end goals. It just ruins it when Zakharov tells me, "I've had enough of your brutal nihilism!" and declares war.
Zakharov doesn't strike me as nihilist in any but perhaps the technical sense...and probably not that "Brutal nihilism," perhaps something like militant Randism, is something that no one save the brutal nihilist himself is likely to like...

Regardless, both societies are nihilistic in nature and based on the whole "end justifying the means" concept. As much as it makes sense that Zakharov would disagree with the Hive's system, it makes next to no sense for Zakharov to insult the Hive for its nihilism and invade it after years of technology trading and brotherhood.
That's like saying that it makes no sense for Muslims to attack Christians for their Christianity because they both follow the same God. The problem Zakharov has isn't with "the ends justify the means," so much as the specific ends. He's a less extreme/brutal nihilist.

The thing with Alpha Centauri is that all the different philosophies have their own merits and downsides. The Hive was Yang's own personal power splurge as much as the University was Zakharov's own personal mad scientist operation. Yang does not do it merely for personal power and ruthlessness, he does it because he actually believes in what he's preaching as does every other leader. The Hive is based on a philosophy that the individual must always succumb to the masses for the benefit of the entire hive, with no mere individual mattering at all in comparison to any benefit to the hive as a whole.
It does suppress intellectualism, but it's really the kind of "Let's just get everything done as soon as possible" focus with no regard for the pain caused to an individual in comparison to whatever benefit received by the human race as a whole. Anyway, let's get back on the topic of Civ 5, which I'm installing right now.
And Zakharov doesn't like that brutal aspect of the Hive's nihilist tendencies.

Oh there is one another thing that bugs me. Research, best way to do it is to conquer huge amount of cities. Smaller nations have hard time catching up. I liked how it was done in EUIII. More realistic in my opinion, let's look at actual history, relatively small countries like Great Britain or Spain grew to be global super powers thanks to advanced technology. Hopefully someone will mod it in.
1. Spain was fairly large for European nations, wasn't it?
2. Cross-nation tech spreading is a lot more common IRL than in Civ.

I have found all of the narrations and quotes to be lack luster. Even with Nimoy reading them they would have fallen short. In Civ 4 it seemed like all the tech quotes pertained directly to the technology or to the era the technology was created. For example, internal combustion (or whatever) in Civ 4 had Henry Ford saying "You can have the Model T in any color you want, so long as it is black." Directly referencing the event or someone important to the event. In Civ 5 the quote is "Any man who can safely operate a car while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves" by Albert Einstein. In Civ 5 the quotes just seem to reference whatever it is you researched. Kind of disappointing.
Agreed, it's annoying.

While I agree that the tech quotes are lackluster, this rates about a 2 on my 1-10 importance scale.  :D
Agreed.

Quote
The combat more than makes up for it IMHO
Disagreed. See above.

I need to prefect my early game strat. I have trouble with everything, wonders, money, culture. It seems like I do nothing correctly except war.
That's amusing to me, because war's the thing I have the most trouble with.

Oh, and that monolith with achievements. Sure it was doing nothing, but I still enjoyed getting them ahead of enemies.
Beat the hell out of Civ 2's throne room, that's for damn sure.  Nothing's as cool as Civ 1's palace builder though :(
*looks that up*
*tries a different set of search terms*
I guess that's kinda neat. Better than the vaguely similar thing in...Civ III or IV, don't remember which.

According to one prominent Civ IV modder (the lead on RiFE), Civ V is far easier to modify than IV, but there are certain impediments to producing overhauls. Overhauls are the mods we most often notice and talk about.
So, you can add/change individual units and civs, but you can't change how gameplay works in any meaningful way?

Not to mention the FFH2 mod for Civ 4 turns it into one of the best and most fun strategy games I've ever played.  I actually think FFH2 has ruined any other turn based strategy game for me, because it's -that- good I always find myself wishing other games had certain aspects from FFH2 included.  :-P
I should look into that mod if I ever get ahold of Civ IV.

Well, clearly atheism itself will be a religion; witness the "reason" civics and the USSR.
  ???
Indeed.

Yes really he should have said he prefers Civ 4, with the two massive expansions and all the bug fixes, to Civ 5. In which case I would agree with him.
So, you want to compare to the buggy version?

Greece, stop fucking about >.>
If you ask me to join a war, do not dive out of it the moment I join! Now everyone thinks I'm a warmonger!
Either the AI is stone dumb or secretly brilliant and evil.

I hate steam now. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU ADVERTISE THE WORKSHOP, LET ALONE RELEASE IT, IF ONE HALF OF THE USERS(The Mac users, to be percise) CAN'T USE IT?
"In the real world, the vast, vast majority (85% to 90%) of personal/home computers run some version of Microsoft Windows. In particular, the majority of engineers, accountants, self-employed people and teachers use Windows PCs. A fairly small number of geeks, a decently large number of data centers and supercomputer labs, and many, many scientists also run Unix-like systems, particularly Linux. This leaves Apple Macintoshes as the minority interest mainly of a small minority of college students, academics, and a number of "creative" types artists, writers, musicians, etc."
Your facts are wrong.

Well, yeah.  That's kind of what happened in real life.  It's not like the America's were just empty.
Kind of. However, much of the Americas, plus Australia, Polynesia, Africa, northern Europe, and assorted other places never really felt the touch of civilization, whatever your definition, due to factors ranging from climate to soil quality to simply not having any domesticable species...none of which Civilization does, or should, support. If the real world worked like your suggested mod, every continent save perhaps Antarctica would have been full of civilizations, some developing faster or slower than others, but all being reasonably developed.

Because civ 5 is not an empire builder, it's a wargame.
With war being an annoying series of cities you need to whittle down the health of slowly.

honestly, the way theyre implemented they're just like "fuck you" victories. I turn them off every time I play.
I dunno. Seems like a certain quote about GalCiv applies...something about how such victories are like those missions where you need to hold the base for five minutes, except that it's "hold half the galaxy for five years". If you're failing, you're unlikely to get enough research/culture/whatever to win that way.
It's from this review thingy, which is currently undergoing server issues it seems...



TL;DR: The newest installment in the Civ series had some neat ideas, but I think they were rather clumsily implemented.
Also, is there a way around the difficulties I've had with waging war? You know, cities not really ever dying (seriously, why can't you march a military unit into an unguarded city anymore?) and not being able to move units into position as fast as they're produced.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Civilization V
« Reply #569 on: April 17, 2014, 10:11:38 pm »

...

Did you really read through the entire thread just to post that?
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