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Author Topic: Load lifter  (Read 1372 times)

Shurikane

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Load lifter
« on: October 14, 2010, 11:24:00 pm »

The concept: a structure that functions like a well, but is used to transport items.  It is meant to speed up excavation and item transporting when the stairs layout is not favorable, making moving the items by hand too lengthy.

Requires: two blocks, an empty bin, two ropes and two mechanisms.

A dwarf places items into the load lifter, and using pathfindings, pulls on the first rope to move the lifter to the correct Z-level.  Once done, he pulls the other rope, which causes the bin to tip over and "spill" its contents, emptying it.  When building, the user is prompted to select the direction in which the bin will lean in order to unload its contents.

The structure starts off with only the top and bottom Z-levels being available for loading and operating.  The lifter can unload at any level.  Using an additional block and mechanism, additional points can be constructed so the dwarves can load and operate at more Z-levels.
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Jake

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 11:57:01 pm »

The basic idea's sound, and something very like this is already planned for a future release, but I think a platform onto which bins or other items could be placed would be more useful. I'd also say that operating it should be a full-time job in the manner of siege engines, but loading and unloading could take place anywhere in between; a hand-cranked lifting mechanism wouldn't be practical at a vertical distance greater than a shout of "Haul away!" could carry in any case.
A possibility of an inexperienced machine operator inadvertently reenacting The Bricklayer's Lament would of course be a bonus.
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Vattic

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2010, 04:10:56 am »

I like this idea but am unsure of the implementation, not sure if I can suggest better.

Perhaps these lifts can be linked to multiple stockpiles and, while the stockpiles have space, would act like stockpiles themselves. So if you have one linked to an empty booze stockpile and on lower level you have some recently brewed beer a dwarf would haul the beer to the lift and use the lift to get it as close to the stockpile as possible where another dwarf could finish the hauling.

For this to work it would need to check if the distance from the item being hauled to the lift plus the distance from the lift to the stockpile is less than hauling it all the way. To determine which level to stop at you'd need to check which level of the lift is closest to the stockpile. I suppose the problem is all this excess pathfinding; I'm not sure if it would speed things up or slow them down FPS-wise.

a hand-cranked lifting mechanism wouldn't be practical at a vertical distance greater than a shout of "Haul away!" could carry in any case.
Then again a simple rope lined with bells hanging from the top of the shaft to the bottom would allow dwarves to communicate between levels, that's how I imagine it anyway.
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Cyntrox

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2010, 06:53:36 am »

a hand-cranked lifting mechanism wouldn't be practical at a vertical distance greater than a shout of "Haul away!" could carry in any case.
And a hand-crank lifting a bridge the size of (insert max size of bridges) dwarves is?
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Jake

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2010, 10:09:45 am »

And a hand-crank lifting a bridge the size of (insert max size of bridges) dwarves is?
That would be within the realms of possibility if geared low enough, though it'd take quite a while. The trouble with a load-lifter like Shurikane describes is that a dwarven operator can only work for so long without becoming exhausted; past a certain distance they'd never get it all the way to the top before keeling over, unless it was geared so low that the lifter takes just as long as carrying the stuff up by hand.
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Never used Dwarf Therapist, mods or tilesets in all the years I've been playing.
I think Toady's confusing interface better simulates the experience of a bunch of disorganised drunken dwarves running a fort.

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Silverionmox

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 12:25:46 pm »

I'd favour a small lift that can be operated by the dwarf that hauled the item(s) to the lift. That way you're guaranteed to have an operator.

The real quandary is how to fit the task "lift item" in the AI. After all, why would a dwarf use the lift to send the item rather than go there himself? Why would he need to send it to the top of the lift, anyway? Therefore I think we should introduce the concept of item destinations.
- Burrows would be item destinations.
- The most basic way to transport them would be the new stockpile type: mail, package, transport, inter-burrow, whatever.
- When would an item get a destination? Manual designation; as a workshop option (all products made in that workshop will get a specific burrow as destination); general orders (eg. send all plump helmets to the kitchen burrow; or, alternatively as a permanent rule: whenever a plump helmet exists, it gets the destination kitchen burrow).
- The effect: an object with a destination that doesn't match its burrow, will only be transported, not used. When its destination matches the burrow its in, it functions normally.

This would allow the player to manage which items go where, and give the dwarves a reason to use a lift. (Because the destination would be recognized by the burrow it was in.)
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Footkerchief

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 12:49:57 pm »

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Pilsu

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Re: Load lifter
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 04:24:00 am »

How would the technical aspect work? A stockpile that generates an 'operate winch' job when it's either emptied or filled?
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