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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 7263575 times)

smjjames

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133500 on: May 10, 2018, 05:29:02 pm »

Maybe he has no choice? Were it me, I'd have quit that place long ago.
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pikachu17

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133501 on: May 10, 2018, 05:30:27 pm »

Isn't the unemployment rating low enough to for him to find a new job fairly easily?
Are you at least looking for a new job?
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133502 on: May 10, 2018, 05:54:33 pm »

I very much specifically said I was not referring to a specific article. Its in a quote in your post, even
You referred to the article, and it's disclaimer, in the quote in my post. Unless you're confusing me with someone else, you've done that before.

No he didn't. This is getting toxic. Let me point out what was in the Tawa post immediately preceding ChairmanPoo's post. ChairmanPoo was responding to this specific post here, which mainly discusses one article I linked
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68850.137580

Tawa opened his post with:

Quote
Reelya, you should actually read the articles you cite as proof that the media is out to get you. Both of the articles you linked very explicitly say "nazis hate the film", not "everyone who hates the film is a nazi".
Quote
    That isn't to say that all objections to The Last Jedi or The Force Awakens, which introduced the new cast are rooted in far-right ideology or hatred. For some, the story simply didn't conform to what they had imagined; fans have had over 30 years to dream up what Luke Skywalker did after Return of the Jedi, and there were plenty of now-discarded novels, comics, and video games that offered more rousing heroics than his self-imposed exile on a forgotten island. Those dissatisfied on this count are sometimes rigid nostalgists, and that doesn't connote hatred, even if it is yearning for a past that was less equal.

Then, ChairmanPoo wrote in the next post:

Quote
The nature of the article and the disclaimer suggests that most haters are alt right. AKA with that sort of disclaimer they are begging the question

But, the point here is that the main bulk of Tawa's post was actually quoting from a previously-linked article which doesn't include any of the disclaimers you're talking about. It's just much more likely that ChairmanPoo was referring to the article which had actually been quoted from, and not the little additional HuffPost link in the later part of the post, just to clarify that if there was any confusion.

The "disclaimer" ChairmanPoo was talking about was that quote that Tawa provided. Which reads:

Quote
That isn't to say that all objections to The Last Jedi or The Force Awakens, which introduced the new cast are rooted in far-right ideology or hatred. For some, the story simply didn't conform to what they had imagined;

Tawa claims this is ample evidence that the article isn't trying to label TLJ haters as far-right. Structurally, that follows this logical form:

Quote
That isn't to say that all X are Y: Some (X) are simply Z

If that's a logically sound form according to Tawa then it should be logically sound even if we change the topic:

Quote
That isn't to say that all Mexican immigrants are rapist drug-dealing pedophiles. some are simply decent people

Look, I'm not racist. Didn't you even read my "some are simply decent people" bit? And I clearly wrote "that isn't to say all Mexican Immigrants are rapist drug-dealing pedophiles", along with that completely sincere disclaimer on the end that "some" aren't. How much clearer do I need to be that I'm not in fact implying that Mexican immigrants - in general - are rapist drug-dealing pedophiles? I put the caveats in, so I'm not racist, right bro? / sarcasm

Sure, it's not calling TLJ critics Nazis about as believably as Trump didn't call Mexicans drug-dealing, rapist, criminal thugs because he added "And some, I assume, are good people" at the end.

* note that ChairmanPoo refers to "begging the question". "begging the question" is when your logical structure assumes something is the default assumption, when you haven't in fact proven that it is the default assumption: it's form of circular reasoning. in this case, the article is assuming its own conclusion that "TLJ haters are Nazis" by including the explicit assumption that "not a Nazi" is a caveat to the normal expected rule that they are Nazis.

** But then, note that right at the end the Non-Nazi minority of TLJ dislikers get an additional jab where he hand-waves away all not-actual-Nazi criticisms of TLJ as subconsciously "yearning for a past that was less equal". So, what he's saying here is that if you happened to dislike the movie for any reason which he can't dismiss off-hand as you being a literal Nazi, you're in fact merely a closet-Nazi-sympathizer, secretly or unwittingly yearning for the sexist, racist, homophobic "golden age". Way to take back the disclaimer. It's as if Trump ended his "Mexicans" speech with "And some, I assume, are good people, except for the fact that they beat their wives", just to double-down on being a complete c**t.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 11:54:13 pm by Reelya »
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133503 on: May 10, 2018, 06:18:11 pm »

Isn't the unemployment rating low enough to for him to find a new job fairly easily?
Are you at least looking for a new job?
There remains pretty much nothing easy about finding work, I'm afraid, least if you don't have nepotism/corruption to lean on. Particularly work that pays as well as a previous position, provides as much hours, vague semblance of stability, relatively equal stress, etc.

Beyond that, there's always room for complicating circumstance and whatnot.
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smjjames

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133504 on: May 10, 2018, 07:19:59 pm »

Isn't the unemployment rating low enough to for him to find a new job fairly easily?
Are you at least looking for a new job?
There remains pretty much nothing easy about finding work, I'm afraid, least if you don't have nepotism/corruption to lean on. Particularly work that pays as well as a previous position, provides as much hours, vague semblance of stability, relatively equal stress, etc.

Beyond that, there's always room for complicating circumstance and whatnot.

In this case, I don't think he'd want relatively equal stress.
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133505 on: May 10, 2018, 08:19:45 pm »

When in doubt, murder everyone and hire a ghost writer for your autobiography.

overseer05-15

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133506 on: May 10, 2018, 09:11:22 pm »

When in doubt, murder everyone and hire a ghost writer for your autobiography.

Well its not like you could hire a living one, if you killed everybody
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133507 on: May 10, 2018, 09:57:30 pm »

-snip-

Ah. That makes a whole lot of sense and I can't help but agree with it. Thanks for elaborating.

But really I just hope the internet dialectic of postmodernist neomarxist sjews vs. Nazi gamer scum one day stops permeating literally everything, like holy shit is that a depressing zeitgeist to be trapped in.

I really hope so too. It sucks that apparently there's only two sides and they're both so toxic or obnoxious. Depressing is putting it lightly.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133508 on: May 10, 2018, 10:13:20 pm »

When in doubt, murder everyone and hire a ghost writer for your autobiography.

I imagine ghost writers are just Marvel's Ghost Rider using a flaming, demonic typewriter.
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KittyTac

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133509 on: May 10, 2018, 10:38:23 pm »

I really hope so too. It sucks that apparently there's only two sides and they're both so toxic or obnoxious. Depressing is putting it lightly.
That happens pretty often. Good and evil are, in the grand scheme of things, subjective.
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133510 on: May 11, 2018, 03:14:25 am »

When in doubt, murder everyone and hire a ghost writer for your autobiography.

I imagine ghost writers are just Marvel's Ghost Rider using a flaming, demonic typewriter.

He really doesn't get many other offers these days, so it's either the typewriter or a topless car wash.

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NJW2000

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133511 on: May 11, 2018, 04:01:15 am »

I very much specifically said I was not referring to a specific article. Its in a quote in your post, even
You referred to the article, and it's disclaimer, in the quote in my post. Unless you're confusing me with someone else, you've done that before.

No he didn't. This is getting toxic. Let me point out what was in the Tawa post immediately preceding ChairmanPoo's post. ChairmanPoo was responding to this specific post here, which mainly discusses one article I linked
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68850.137580]
Quote
That isn't to say that all objections to The Last Jedi or The Force Awakens, which introduced the new cast are rooted in far-right ideology or hatred. For some, the story simply didn't conform to what they had imagined;

Tawa claims this is ample evidence that the article isn't trying to label TLJ haters as far-right. Structurally, that follows this logical form:

Quote
That isn't to say that all X are Y: Some (X) are simply Z

If that's a logically sound form according to Tawa then it should be logically sound even if we change the topic:

Begging the question is a rhetorical term, not a logical one in this sense, and is pretty dependent on content and context. If you've said something that might make it look like all X are Y, it's actually reasonable to say that not all X are Y.

Quote
That isn't to say all groups of order six are Abelian; some are simply dihedral.

This seems to tacitly suggest very little for example. Anyway, the thing about this rhetorical technique is that even when it is intentional and obvious, as when Trump does it, its factual content is still the same. The hateful nature of Trump's speeches comes from his actual comments about Mexican immigrants, rather than his rhetorically persuasive qualifiers. If a prison warden in an American town was asked about the immigrants he encountered in his work, ending his reply with "some are good people" would look perfectly fine. Similarly, the writer takes pains to say that while people may object out of nostalgia, they aren't necessarily nostalgic for the inequality, as the people he interviewed before said they were. "Begging the question" is very much dependent on how easily the sensibilities of the reader are offended, and on the actual content.

 ChairmanPoo may not like the phrasing, but the article presents facts that confirm his belief that TLJ haters are largely not bigots. Why does he object to it then? Because he's uncomfortable with the slight hints he percieves, and the nature of the article as reporting on something that makes some people with whom he shares a belief ("TLJ sucks") look like bigots. When people can't handle that sort of slightly disagreeable experience, but simply fold it into their conviction (true or not) that the entire media is unfairly ranged against them, echo chambers are not far off. Disliking the media response to alt-right claims can be justified, but that sort of immediate attack on something true if upsetting is very concerning.

If you think when Chairman says, "the nature of the article and the disclaimer", he's not referring to the same article... well, that's not really using English the way most people do.
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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133512 on: May 11, 2018, 05:01:56 am »

How about PMs for this rather than risking the thread getting locked?
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133513 on: May 11, 2018, 05:16:49 am »


 ChairmanPoo may not like the phrasing, but the article presents facts that confirm his belief that TLJ haters are largely not bigots. Why does he object to it then? Because he's uncomfortable with the slight hints he percieves, and the nature of the article as reporting on something that makes some people with whom he shares a belief ("TLJ sucks") look like bigots. When people can't handle that sort of slightly disagreeable experience, but simply fold it into their conviction (true or not) that the entire media is unfairly ranged against them, echo chambers are not far off. Disliking the media response to alt-right claims can be justified, but that sort of immediate attack on something true if upsetting is very concerning.

If you think when Chairman says, "the nature of the article and the disclaimer", he's not referring to the same article... well, that's not really using English the way most people do.

Can you specify which article you think ChairmanPoo was referring to. My point was that he was referring to the article which Tawa's quote comes from. Which is this article, for reference:
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/how-the-alt-right-and-nostalgic-trolls-hijacked-geek-pop-culture

the title of that article "how the alt right and nostalgic trolls hijacked geek pop culture" is mirrored precisely in the part where they say that there were exactly two types of people who didn't like TLJ: far-right haters or nostalgic people ("trolls" according to the articles title).

it's not "slight hints": it's presenting a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't binary choice: the article claims there are two types of haters for the movie: trolls or bigots, and the "not all the haters are bigots" part immediately jumps to the "nostaligic trolls" thing promised in the articles title. There is no third option allowed of not liking the movie for reasonable reasons. The author is, in fact a huge bigot himself hiding behind a wall of moral self-righteousness. That's the only way to interpret it when someone is clearly getting off on stereotyping and slandering mass amounts of people, but wrapping it up in a cloak of self-righteous indignation. Reasonable people don't tar everyone with the same brush like that author did: if you don't like his thing, you're a troll or a bigot, no third option allowed. That's positively pathological.

Just to check we're on the same page before continuing the discussion, do you agree that this is the article ChairmanPoo was referring about or not? Because you don't sound like you're talking about the same article at all.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 06:02:21 am by Reelya »
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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #133514 on: May 11, 2018, 05:36:58 am »

I once had a CD explode inside my computer while it was running. That was a WTF day.
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