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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 13002809 times)

bloop_bleep

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143205 on: March 02, 2019, 10:54:04 pm »

We arent talking about the West Asian state, are we?
Calling them an Asian is floating somewhere close to the top of the list of most effective ways to piss a Georgian off.
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overseer05-15

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143206 on: March 02, 2019, 11:24:57 pm »

We arent talking about the West Asian state, are we?
Calling them an Asian is floating somewhere close to the top of the list of most effective ways to piss a Georgian off.

right at the top is probably asking them 'Oh, like the one in America?'
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143207 on: March 02, 2019, 11:38:40 pm »

We're all missing an important point. The nation isn't actually called Georgia by the Georgians. They call it Sakartvelo. "Georgia" is only the English-speaking name for it (the root seems to be a Persian word for the area - Gurgan), so rather than be offended, they'd probably be more confused by the reference to Georgia the state. However, the "official" name of the nation as far as e.g. U.N. stuff is concerned is the English name Georgia.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/ethnic-groups-in-the-country-of-georgia.html

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It's actually sort of a mystery exactly why people in the English-speaking world call this nation Georgia; the people who live there call it Sakartvelo. Georgia is not a large nation, but it is a complex one with a complex history. The nation has recently developed a taste for state-of-the art architecture, which sometimes clashes with traditional cultures. They often claim to be either a part of Asia or of Europe, depending on the issue. One of their national heroes is Joseph Stalin, a Georgian-born dictator of the USSR who is primarily remembered here for his role in helping defeat the Nazis in WWII.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 11:44:24 pm by Reelya »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143208 on: March 02, 2019, 11:50:26 pm »

I've met people from Georgia. They very much called themselves Georgian (arguably, when  not speaking im Georgian). And very much regarded themselves as European.
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Doomblade187

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143209 on: March 03, 2019, 12:44:11 am »

I would love to move to Georgia. So much sumptuous architecture to feast one's eyes on.
Just keep that vile "sweet tea" nonsense away from me...
Ah yes, the sumptuous architecture.

Yeah, slaves built most of that. :(

On the other hand, sweet tea is amazing you tea snob you.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143210 on: March 03, 2019, 12:52:00 am »

Yeah, slaves built most of that. :(

I mean, same could be said of the great pyramids.
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Doomblade187

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143211 on: March 03, 2019, 04:18:09 am »

Yeah, slaves built most of that. :(

I mean, same could be said of the great pyramids.
Quite true!
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143212 on: March 03, 2019, 04:31:46 am »

I've met people from Georgia. They very much called themselves Georgian (arguably, when  not speaking im Georgian). And very much regarded themselves as European.

Yeah, but if I'm speaking English I'll be referring to be me as a Swede and not a Svensk, and say Sweden as opposed to Sverige. Or, if I was speaking Finnish, I'd call myself Routsilainen and not Svenskilainen, the same way Finns in English call themselves Finns and not Soumis.

Addendum - motion to make Soumi Wrestling into Finland's national sport all in favour say aye?
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143213 on: March 03, 2019, 04:34:17 am »

That's more movie history than real history, however. It's pretty much well-established that the pyramid builders were not slaves.

It's just extremely costly when the government is responsible for you 24/7. The real pyramid builders were from poor families, but they'd go home to help with the harvest season etc. It's just easier to have a system where if you run away, you don't get paid, rather than have to pay large number of guards to watch over you.

The "slaves" would have had access to some pretty heavy tools for the pyramid-building too, and the shitty level of weaponry in 2500 BC, along with the lack of mobility (pre-horse era) would have meant they'd need a large number of guards. In the Old South the dynamics were different: the slave masters had guns and horses, so a few guards could keep a large number of slaves in line.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 04:38:02 am by Reelya »
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143214 on: March 03, 2019, 04:45:59 am »

Pretty well established that part of the builders were not slaves.

And it's not "more movie history", it's what historians legitimately believed for a long time before they found those records of wages or whatever it was.
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143215 on: March 03, 2019, 05:00:40 am »

But the logistics of keeping that many slaves permanently don't really add up. If you have them there 24/7 then you're responsible for feeding, housing, clothing them, and having a large slave-master apparatus costing you a lot more. Having a few slaves/indentured servants per household is reasonably efficient, or plantation slaves in the Old South, but only because the advanced weaponry of the firearm meant a small number of guards were needed. but there's literally nowhere where for example a "slave factory" is overall more efficient than merely paying people a wage then sending them home at the end of the day. There's a reason that the places with "wage slavery" are economically beating the places with actual slavery.

Also, we don't have any evidence of any archeology that supports the slave-hypothesis, so it's kinda disingenious to assume that the slave-hypothesis is the working hypothesis, until 100% proven otherwise. You should go on "preponderance of evidence" if there are two competing hypothesis, not pick one as the automatic default, without providing a compelling reason why it should be so. "because people used to believe that" is not a compelling reason to continue to believe something, when the available evidence says the opposite of the common-belief.

for example if there were lots of slaves worked to death (which you'd basically have to do, to make it at all economical vs simply paying farmers to come work on the pyramids during the off-season), there should be huge mass-graves full of dead slaves near the pyramids, but these mass graves do not exist. to the best of our knowledge. They would have had to put the dead slaves somewhere. We only have examples of people freely buried along with personal possessions and the typical Egyptian gifts for the afterlife, which would imply they weren't slaves, unless they treated the slaves especially well. Until we find the bodies of the proposed slaves, the working hypothesis should be that the existing, actually found, graves are typical. About 10,000 people at a time worked on the big pyramids over 30 years. Assuming a slave would last 5 years on such a project, we're talking 60000 corpses per pyramid that should be buried around there.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 05:17:38 am by Reelya »
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143216 on: March 03, 2019, 05:09:51 am »

Just throw them to the crocodiles!

And yeah, I've talked a bit with a Georgian. He called himself a Georgian, "and not the American state, dumb Americans not knowing the rest of the world", and proceeded to tell me how much better he's feeling now that he stopped taking his pills and got out from under the oppressive medical regime that just tried to keep him down by putting labels on him like "schizophrenic".

Like, can't people just be allowed to be themselves? The nerve of some professionals, I tell you...

IcyTea31

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143217 on: March 03, 2019, 05:46:27 am »

Or, if I was speaking Finnish, I'd call myself Routsilainen and not Svenskilainen, the same way Finns in English call themselves Finns and not Soumis.
"Ruotsalainen", "Suomalainen". Diphthongs are important.

Though Finland is a pretty poor example, considering we have our own words for a good number of the neighbouring countries, for example:
(English name / local language name / Finnish name)
Sweden / Sverige / Ruotsi
Russia / Rossiya / Venäjä
Estonia / Eesti / Viro
Germany / Deutschland / Saksa
Georgia / Sakartvelo / Gruusia

Countries not as close to Finland or Russia get some slack, though:
England / England / Englanti
Spain / España / Espanja
Brazil / Brasilia / Brasilia

...except when it's a "descriptive" name:
The Netherlands / Nederlanden / Alankomaat
The United States / The United States / Yhdysvallat
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Akura

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143218 on: March 03, 2019, 07:47:45 am »

Yeah, slaves built most of that. :(

Part of me thinks that's the reason they're picking Georgia. Sure, they're claiming that property taxes and the costs of buying a house(they mentioned Augusta, for which this statement is true) are far lower than in New York, nevermind that they're ignoring the cost of living. But they've also told me that abolishing black slavery was a bad idea and that it should be brought back.
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #143219 on: March 03, 2019, 08:23:52 am »

I'm afraid that steamboat has sailed... Why not invest in some guns and head to one of the more anarchic African countries? Plenty of slavery and other atrocities going on down there, just carve out your own independent state with bloodshed and child soldiers and enjoy the benefits of being a warlord!

Cost of living is also very low! If you survive, that is.
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