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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 5801468 times)

Naxza

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145965 on: July 16, 2019, 09:54:01 am »

*doesn't use YouTube or Twitch, plays only single player offline games by himself and also spends significant amounts of time  outside *

... is being not a nerd the new being a nerd?
You play Dwarf Fortress... How can you claim not to be a nerd?

Does he, though? There's a lot of people here just for lower boards and Forum Games/Roleplaying. S'like saying the janitor at a fitness center is just another swolemate.

In other news, my digestion is ANGERY and my effluence is like wet newspaper. Beginning to think it's the honey oat bunch cereal, if not the soybeans from three days ago. Or black beans? Please don't be black beans.
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MaxTheFox

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145966 on: July 16, 2019, 12:20:47 pm »

I play adventure mode only and usually use it as a virtual punching bag for my anger issues. Does that count?
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dragdeler

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145967 on: July 16, 2019, 12:31:41 pm »

I'm with Eric, y'all Neopilled AF; I can see it clearly trough the letters that constitute your appearance.

Yoink

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145968 on: July 16, 2019, 01:02:29 pm »

But is it a good idea?
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dragdeler

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145969 on: July 16, 2019, 01:25:50 pm »

Broadly speaking:

Broadcasting turns is a good idea IMHO, but I guess it won't be easy get the players and timetables straightened up. And I could imagine some people not being too fond of doxxing their voice and accent  ;D. But it's more engaging and that can be a very good thing.

Personally I think that succession worlds are the natural evolution, as our means to interract with the outter world will only increase... And one could easily dedicate single fortresses to more traditional formats. And players or coalitions of players could have dedicated factions.


Concretly:

I got a pretty special world I poured hundreds of hours into, the project has been ground to a halt at 89% of chapter 2 (I'm too lazy to clean up items so the fort runs more smoothly in adventure, also some minor annoying details I haven't accomplished yet), chapter 3 should be fairly short. After that I'd be delighted to use the map for community games (I got a set of rules in mind, but as I grazed above, one could easily subsume a bunch of turns into a more specific theme/ set of rules) and if somebody streamed their turn I'd probably have that running on my second screen while I play something else.

Jopax

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145970 on: July 16, 2019, 01:34:01 pm »

NEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRDSSSSSSSSSSSSS

*ahem*

That is all, good day.
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Hanslanda

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145971 on: July 16, 2019, 02:57:06 pm »

*doesn't use YouTube or Twitch, plays only single player offline games by himself and also spends significant amounts of time  outside *

... is being not a nerd the new being a nerd?
You play Dwarf Fortress... How can you claim not to be a nerd?

Does he, though? There's a lot of people here just for lower boards and Forum Games/Roleplaying. S'like saying the janitor at a fitness center is just another swolemate.

I haven't in... Several months. And usually it's just Arena or Adventure mode. I've started a couple forts but can't get into them because I don't minecarts or new stuff well.

Same with Urist McStation. Too much new stuff.
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Yoink

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145972 on: July 17, 2019, 01:04:42 am »

Bloody hell, I just slept in way too late and had this insanely detailed dream. I don't remember all that much of it but there was a lot going on, all sorts of crazy plotlines and themes.
On the one hand I'm annoyed about sleeping in, but... I dunno wtf just went on in my brain but it sure was exciting.
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Booze is Life for Yoink

To deprive him of Drink is to steal divinity from God.
you need to reconsider your life
If there's any cause worth dying for, it's memes.

MaxTheFox

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145973 on: July 17, 2019, 04:59:24 am »

So, a WTF for me is people thinking that killing off dwarves or whatever in DF or going on a world-cleansing rampage in that same game is actually unethical. It's literally just a game. Single-player games are exempt from ethics or morality unless you are roleplaying or something.
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145974 on: July 17, 2019, 05:11:36 am »

Anyone remember way back in the day with Creatures, they tried to stir up some controversy due to the code for norns purportedly being set up so they could "understand" pain and suffering, and therefore whether it was defensible to let people just mess around with them as they wished?

So, naturally, people had to get together and devise the most effective methods of torturing norns and terrorizing them with as much trauma as possible.

MaxTheFox

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145975 on: July 17, 2019, 05:29:43 am »

In almost all cases, those mechanics in games are just a number, rather than complex interactions of hormones as in real, living beings. Saying that those entities can feel pain is like writing "Pain: 0" into a text editor and then adding a 1 to it so it's "Pain: 10". Only a fool would think that the text editor actually feels pain from you doing so.
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Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145976 on: July 17, 2019, 05:44:36 am »

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/23/5643418/this-guy-thinks-killing-video-game-characters-is-immoral

Quote
Brian Tomasik ... has become interested in the question of what moral standing, if any, we should give to non-player characters in video games (NPCs). He argues that, while NPCs do not have anywhere near the mental complexity of animals, the difference is one of degree rather than kind, and we should care at least a tiny amount about their suffering, especially as they grow more complex. We spoke on Gchat this past Tuesday. An edited and condensed transcript follows.

This guy doesn't understand how computer games work. Until we actually start implanting simulated brains in the NPCs, it is a difference of kind, not degree. A marionette is not a living creature. Asking whether current NPCs are at all sentient is basically asking whether basic algebra is sentient, so is it ethical to do maths puzzles?

Really, this thinking is just riddled with dumb cognitive biases. People are worried that game NPCs will become sentient solely because they are human-shaped. But ... how many of them are concerned that say, the game itself, or the entire game console spontaneously evolves consciousness? After all, that's far more plausible than game NPCs doing so, because game NPCs are far simpler.

 it's just the old tendency to attribute human-like qualities to things which resemble humans.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:00:05 am by Reelya »
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Kagus

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145977 on: July 17, 2019, 05:48:24 am »

In almost all cases, those mechanics in games are just a number, rather than complex interactions of hormones as in real, living beings. Saying that those entities can feel pain is like writing "Pain: 0" into a text editor and then adding a 1 to it so it's "Pain: 10". Only a fool would think that the text editor actually feels pain from you doing so.
That said, the things did have something like 200 digital hormones they were programmed with and that could be messed with either environmentally or directly through the use of a chemical injector. And the production of which could be altered through genetic mutations.

The question was, at the time, at what point does a simulation resemble reality enough to be treated like it?


This was back in the 90's though, so their perception of reality was pretty messed up to begin with.

Reelya

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145978 on: July 17, 2019, 06:03:54 am »

We can worry about that later. People get confused because games are effectively very elaborate cardboard cut-outs of things. Let's start worrying when the humans have insides and stop being just an empty shell. A wooden beam in a game isn't like a wooden beam in the real world, it's an elongated empty box with nice paintwork. But the humans are no more complex, they're just more elaborately shaped empty boxes. A game human has the same sentience as an empty crate in the game.

a human cell has about 10^14 atoms. those atoms consist of protons, neutrons and electrons. The most complex game we have has significantly less data in it than a single cell.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:12:40 am by Reelya »
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #145979 on: July 17, 2019, 06:14:23 am »

Right now the only argument I will affect as valid is "killing npcs is immoral because it simulates killing real people".
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Love, scriver~
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