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[wierd]

They confuse inability to intrinsically be emotionally roused by facial and body positional cues in another individual, as indicators of lack of emotive capacity, rather than failure to recognize tension or distress in the the other individual.

It's akin to suggesting that blind people are heartless bastards because they have zero reaction to seeing pictures of gore from a train wreck.

[Eschar]

Stereotypes. Or stigma. Or seeing people different from them as "not-quite-human" (like many loud advocates of the Moral Argument do.)

Fakeedit: ninja'd by a better explanation.

[Naturegirl1999]

They confuse inability to intrinsically be emotionally roused by facial and body positional cues in another individual, as indicators of lack of emotive capacity, rather than failure to recognize tension or distress in the the other individual.

It's akin to suggesting that blind people are heartless bastards because they have zero reaction to seeing pictures of gore from a train wreck.

Stereotypes. Or stigma. Or seeing people different from them as "not-quite-human" (like many loud advocates of the Moral Argument do.)

Fakeedit: ninja'd by a better explanation.

thank you both for the explanations. This makes me sad that this is still happening, people thinking others are not quite human because of not reacting “correctly” to certain stimuli. Eschar, your not quite human section reminded me of a nightmare I had where I was thought to be a human like robot and nearly disassembled because of not being able to explain the purpose of emotions

[wierd]

Another potential source of confusion, is that the author might be considering the more extreme "Locked in" individuals with extreme autism, who are often unable to properly verbalize with complete sentences, and are often characterized with "Blunted affect."  (EG, providing a structured investigation of an easy to arrange enrichment activity that can greatly enrich such a person's difficult life, since understanding what does and does not illicit positive emotional reactions in extreme autists can be challenging for neurotypical people.)

It is still the same situation as with high functioning autists, in as much as the autist simply does not register the stimulus as one that should illicit an emotional reaction. However, the observant investigator should note that "Emotional disturbances" are common with such extreme autists, caused by disruptions to their routines or preferences. This clearly indicates emotional faculty is present, and that the disorder is not characterized by a complete state of anhedonia or other lack of emotional CAPACITY but is better characterized as a deficit in social interaction registration, cue recognition, or other "intrinsic" in neurotypical individuals normally associated with emotional regulation and expression.

I would LIKE to give the benefit of the doubt that the author is seeking to be "informative" to uneducated individuals that might harbor such a false presumption (Autists do not have emotions), and to provide a structured examination of autists displaying emotional performance to "normal" stimuli, such as seeing fine art, as a structured refutation.

I feel that the opening of the paper should have clarified this intent in the abstract portion, just for good measure, so that it is not confused with having the researcher present themselves as such an uneducated hack...  but them's the breaks I guess.

[Reelya]

Well the linked article is say "we proved that people with autism can enjoy art - so give funding to art galleries and performance art spaces so we can get autistic people to come!"

It's a highly "motivated" form of research because it attributes artistic value to a very small segment of the creative possibility space - the Arts Establishment, so to speak. So not only is it very patronizing to people on the autism spectrum it's also elitist art-crowd speak.

It also sounds so self-serving. If they can convince carers that trips to the art gallery and local theatre workshop are just what the autistic kids are lacking, then that's a source of funding an a captive audience who can't really complain. Not many regular people go to "art galleries" very often, and there's a really good reason for that. Painting on a canvas is an antiquated tradition that's kept alive by a dedicated core of followers who've convinced themselves that they're better and more "elevated" than everyone else. them and their chosen medium are largely irrelevant, so they need to drum up interest wherever they can, even if that means convincing carers that the mentally disabled need a trip to the local gallery to see the paintings. To be perfectly honest, the level of quality of artistic talent on display on DeviantArt vastly surpasses any art gallery I've even been in.

There are plenty of created artworks that autistic people already enjoy, but we're going to tell them they're not "proper art" and that to be raised up you need to go to the art gallery, museum, performance arts etc. Autistic people clearly already enjoy a range of media, movies etc, but those aren't "real art" because they're not made by designated "Artists". You need to be able to appreciate a poop on a canvas to be uplifted by True Art, not that popular stuff.

[wierd]

If the produced artifact conveys a meaningful concept to the viewer, and can do so consistently and reliably, it is art.

When that concept must be EXPLAINED outside of the initial viewing, it has failed miserably as art.  (If a viewer looks at the work, scratches their head, and has a WTF moment, you have failed as an artist.)

^-- this is my refutation of 99% of "contemporary art".  The intention usually attempted by contemporary art is to be nonconformist for the very sake of nonconformity, which is a very abstract concept to convey, and which is often not well performed by contemporary art pieces.  For this reason, I feel they do not deserve to be in a FINE art gallery.

/Art Snobbery

Amusingly, it is this VERY aspect that is what is enabling to an autist, to find enjoyment within an actual work of fine art--- It is able to successfully convey an emotionally stirring conceptualization within the viewer, and is thus successful in being art. MOST contemporary art that gets peddled by "Art Critics" these days would only make even a high functioning autist stand there for hours trying to understand what the hell the creator intended to convey, and result in confused frustration, more than 9/10ths of the time.

[scriver]

Art is defined by skill

If it takes skill to create, craft, and master, it is art.

I am very skilled in the art of being contrarian. A true contrartiste

[wierd]

Incorrect--  "Modern Art" was created to be purposefully simplistic and sloppy in design, with the express intent to convey and demonstrate how complex concepts can be rendered with simple motifs, and highly relaxed rules of composition, form, structure, or familiarity.  (See for instance, the rather blobby style used by Van Gogh, such as in "Starry night" or "The scream")

It does demonstrate a DIFFERENT kind of skill-- Understanding of the human psyche and condition to a high degree, to enable such a communication to occur with so little provided context, or with such simplistic forms lacking in depth or structure-- leaving the viewer to fill in all the missing detail organically.

"Contemporary art", in comparison, lacks even THAT, and simply fails at all levels.

[LordBaal]

Yes I do, why?

Our nuclear fungus feed underground bunker surely would need a crochet sex dungeon. And as you are asexual surely would be made under an objective vision!

[wierd]

Takes too long to construct a suitable ensemble, unless you are into a very niche corner of kink fetish masochism, involving being humiliated and being forced to wait for hours, perhaps days, while the bondage gear is painstakingly constructed in place with tiny thread and hook.

I do not mean to kinkshame, but this seems like something I would not personally find gratifying-- but I would be able to appreciate the skill of a yarn artist that is able to produce quality gear under such conditions, and appreciate the kind of long-suffering, demonstration-based affirmation of unconditional affection the submissive would demonstrate through such performances---

[TheSteppeWolf]

This forum... it's great... Lol

[MrRoboto75]

I am very skilled in the art of being contrarian.

No ur not

[Il Palazzo]

That's a study you can apparently do, and get paid for it. With commentary.

it sucks that people think autistic people can’t feel emotion/empathize. One of my IEPs mentioned me lacking empathy. Why would people think autists lack empathy?

They confuse inability to intrinsically be emotionally roused by facial and body positional cues in another individual, as indicators of lack of emotive capacity, rather than failure to recognize tension or distress in the the other individual.

It's akin to suggesting that blind people are heartless bastards because they have zero reaction to seeing pictures of gore from a train wreck.

AFAIK in psychology empathy is treated functionally - it's not about whether a person is capable of feeling emotions, it's whether (or rather, to what degree) those emotive responses can be triggered by stimuli which trigger such responses in neurotypical populace.

If you read S.Baron-Coehn's works, he measures his autism quotient on the empathising-systematising spectrum. It isn't because he thinks non-neurotypical individuals are heartless automatons (or that neurotypicals are unable to systematise), it's because when presented with cues designed to trigger empathy responses the autism spectrum people score lower.

So in weird's analogy, if all one had to measure it by were visual stimuli, the blind person would be labelled as lacking empathy precisely because the sight of a train wreck doesn't affect them. Such a label would be free of value judgements about their internal emotional life.
With a blind person it's easy to trigger empathic response by changing stimuli to non-visual. But with the autism spectrum the barrier is not so obvious, so all you're left with is lower empathy scores.


This is completely tangential to the study referred to before - it looks fishy.

[Iduno]

Incorrect--  "Modern Art" was created to be purposefully simplistic and sloppy in design, with the express intent to convey and demonstrate how complex concepts can be rendered with simple motifs, and highly relaxed rules of composition, form, structure, or familiarity.  (See for instance, the rather blobby style used by Van Gogh, such as in "Starry night" or "The scream")

Yep.

One of my IEPs mentioned me lacking empathy. Why would people think autists lack empathy?

People who study one thing for too long (doctors, teachers) are generally out-of-touch with everything else, and have to rely on other people's biases (so usually whatever the loudest person says) to make decisions.

[scriver]

If you read S.Baron-Coehn's works,

Sasha Baron-Cohen?