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[Egan_BW]

Optional third option: find a technological solution, but it greatly reduces their quality of life.

[dragdeler]

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[hector13]

Just feed them the crims, until they get so numerous that the severity of crime that is sentenced with death by Furry is so low that crime is wiped out or humanity thieves its way to extinction.

[dragdeler]

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[Rolan7]

Hypothetical. Race of sapient humanoid wolf furries. They need meat to survive. Ethical to genocide them in order to reduce overall suffering?

Honestly that was more the sort of airy philosophical discussion that I had in mind with the thread.

Also it obviously depends on how prey are treated.  In fact I'll nerd out - Star Control 3 (much despised for good reasons) had some interesting species ideas.  One was actually a symbiotic union of carnivores and herbivores.  It's been a while, but IIRC the... tribbles, basically... were somehow more intelligent than the brutish but reasonable carnivores, and acknowledged the need for population control.  I think from observing the typical population-explosion-then-die-off of high school ecology.  They were also quite small and weak.  So (again, IIRC) they formed an alliance where they did most of the strategic planning, while allowing themselves to be eaten at a sustainable rate.

It probably falls apart in a lot of ways if you overthink it, but that describes every race in Star Control (even before 3).

So in short - you shouldn't genocide carnivores for being carnivores, no.  The real question (for me, anyway) is at what point conditions for the animals become intolerable.  Capitalism makes monsters of us all...

[LordBaal]

Eating animals is delicious, and I like it, whenever it can be afforded and won't apologize for it, also is the best source of protein, trust me on that because I know the difference first hand. It's a matter of evolution/biology. Also rather fish and poultry over red meat any day of the week.

I am also aware of the suffering of the animals on different grades (mechanized pen vs free range and traditional techniques is a world of difference) and dislike unnecessary suffering. Also I'm aware that some agriculture practices are environmentally negative and would love for people to find a way to stop producing animal products in such ways.

To be honest, lab grown meat can't simply be here fast enough because that would solve a lot of the issues (maybe creating some new, unknown and exciting ones). Also sustainable fish farms aren't big enough around here yet either.

Hypothetical. Race of sapient humanoid wolf furries. They need meat to survive. Ethical to genocide them in order to reduce overall suffering?

-sound of gun cock

Seriously, no. My guess is that if such race evolved it must have the means to feed from it's environment. Just like we did.

[Egan_BW]

Gimme that brainless science meat. Oh yes. Only $100 per bite...
Nature is better at building things than us. But it keeps giving those things survival instincts, for some reason. Stoopid living things, wanting to continue themselves...

So in short - you shouldn't genocide carnivores for being carnivores, no.  The real question (for me, anyway) is at what point conditions for the animals become intolerable.  Capitalism makes monsters of us all...

So if the alternative were destruction of a sapient species, then it would be possible to find a way to treat the food animals in a way that's acceptable, right?
Well, that's not really the case with us humans, because we're happy to be omnivores, but it is a certain way to contextualize the issue. Our biology lets us survive without meat, with consequences that different people have different willingnesses to cope with... overall, that's considerably not as bad as genocide.

Eh.
I eat meat most days, along with other things. I'd say my diet is balanced, but doubtlessly I eat more meat than most earlier generations of human. Or maybe just the ones after agriculture? I'm not sure what balance hunter-gatherers have between animal and vegetable, really.

[Naturegirl1999]

Meat is muscle. We know how to program stem cells to grow into specific cell types, and thus, tissue types. Therefore, growing meat in a lab is very possible, if expensive at the moment.

[Egan_BW]

Last I heard, the issue was in "exercising" the meat so that it actually grows into something resembling muscle from an animal, rather than some cell-flavored mush. It's certainly possible though. And probably necessary to save the world, seeing how much damage the meat industry does, and how hard it is to convince americans to change their lifestyle...


Also, presently playing Persona 4:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Yoink]

...also is the best source of protein, trust me on that because I know the difference first hand.

Hmmmm, now as much as I respect what you've been through (and that I assume you're referring to here), being forced not to eat meat due to difficult circumstances is not nearly the same as eating a proper, balanced plant-based diet. Obviously you have to make sure to get enough protein, same as ever, but with a bit of thought it's quite easy to do so - the only thing that can actually be a challenge to get from plants is B12, mainly due to modern farming practices meaning it no longer occurs naturally.   



Edit: also, it's ethical to genocide the hypothetical furries for being (or at least resembling) furries, never mind any overreaching ethical concerns.    

[Rolan7]

I get my B12 online, personally

[LordBaal]

...also is the best source of protein, trust me on that because I know the difference first hand.

Hmmmm, now as much as I respect what you've been through (and that I assume you're referring to here), being forced not to eat meat due to difficult circumstances is not nearly the same as eating a proper, balanced plant-based diet. Obviously you have to make sure to get enough protein, same as ever, but with a bit of thought it's quite easy to do so - the only thing that can actually be a challenge to get from plants is B12, mainly due to modern farming practices meaning it no longer occurs naturally.

Yup, and iron, b12 and other assorted dietary supplements are between fucking expensive and fucking astronomical around these parts. Also the portions you must ingest are simply prohibitive as legumin (quality ones anyway) are very expensive too and requires a lot of heat to cook, which is also an issue when cooking gas and electricity are scarce. Plus, between you and me, beans give me horrible gases, and when they became our primary protein source.... darn, it was fucking horrible.

[Yoink]

Iron is easy to get from beans 'n' shit, but personally I use nutritional yeast for b12.   

I get my B12 online, personally

I kinda wish I'd meant that intentionally...   

[Egan_BW]

Edit: also, it's ethical to genocide the hypothetical furries for being (or at least resembling) furries, never mind any overreaching ethical concerns.    

How uncharitable of you~

[Rolan7]

The ending of Far Cry 5 made me WTF today.  The big choice was somehow even more ridiculous than the one in Far Cry 3, and fucking none of what happened made sense.  I was hoping for any sort of closure, not...

I did like how it sorta referenced the vastly superior ending of Far Cry 2.

(Fun game though, and it runs better than 3 while looking much better!  But the story, fuck...)